I Experienced God

[Heart of Space]

1 minute ago, Nexeternity said:

What a sick thread!  Thanks for sharing!  I know what you are saying is true from the vibe of your words.  

How awesome and exciting it is to be alive.

 

Thanks man.  

You're very welcome my friend. 

People like you are exactly why I made this.  Thank you for being so kind it genuinely makes me feel good. 

[Nexeternity]

Just now, Heart of Space said:

You're very welcome my friend. 

People like you are exactly why I made this.  Thank you for being so kind it genuinely makes me feel good. 

Hehehe no problem   it makes me feel good too!!!

[kurt]

5 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

To say that it is an experience is a concession to imperfect language.  That criticism is akin to attacking the grammatical structures of my sentences rather than the message itself.  One thing I've noticed on this forum is a form of dogmatism in language where people criticize those who refer to their identity in language.  This is not only not getting people to see the truth, it is dogmatic and a ritualistic use language in a way that creates a concept of what truth is rather than the truth itself. 

This is my understanding and experience though, I would never make presumptions about your experience as you do with mine. 

Well, your defensive reaction says you dont even understand the ego that's looking for something outside itself (respect, understanding).

You are also not aware that you are projecting thoughts from the causal body onto your own self.  So you dont even own your own mind yet.

The reason I know this is because there is only one God, and one person here, and it functions in exact same way in everyone. When I know and negate myself, I can know and negate you too.  Without projecting! lol

Sorry to burst your bubble, but youre far from knowing about God, you don't even know how you function yet

 

[Heart of Space]

19 minutes ago, kurt said:

Well, your defensive reaction says you dont even understand the ego that's looking for something outside itself (respect, understanding).

You are also not aware that you are projecting thoughts from the causal body onto your own self.  So you dont even own your own mind yet.

The reason I know this is because there is only one God, and one person here, and it functions in exact same way in everyone. When I know and negate myself, I can know and negate you too.  Without projecting! lol

Sorry to burst your bubble, but youre far from knowing about God, you don't even know how you function yet

 

I don't feel like I'm being defensive at all, rather I was just cordially making a few points.  And as I said before, from my experience you do not experience any other living beings experience's that are separate from your own.  So, saying things like "it functions in exact same way in everyone," does not make sense to me.  Do you experience multiple people's perspectives at once?  That would seem necessary to make the claims you are making.  I would genuinely like to know, that would be truly fascinating to me and I'm sure many other people on this forum. 

Or maybe perhaps we're talking past each other or failing to communicate in some way.  With all do respect, you may respond to your hearts content, but I don't really see value in continuing the conversation. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Heart of Space

[Heart of Space]

And in general I would like to state for the record I never claimed to be in some higher holy "ego-less" state, or that I'm better or more knowledgeable than anyone.  I'm a silly human like everyone else with my own interests and desires.  What I'm talking about in this thread has certainly impacted me, but it certainly didn't magically transform me into some magical state up in the clouds above the rest of you.  Experiencing God didn't do that for my ape self, because the experience was not within the confines of my little ape self. 

Be very careful when listening to people on this forum talk about how you're "supposed to be" or "how you're supposed to talk" after experiencing "real enlightenment," because a lot of it is dogma disguised.  A person who has experienced God isn't any particular person that talks in a particular way.  A person can experience God and yet still have no understanding of spirituality what-so-ever.  It could be a monk, a person that works at McDonalds, a serial killer, in my case just some random schlub that works in pharmacy.  Truth or God is not the person, the person is still a flawed little monkey.  And I would guess that we've all maybe come across a person who's genuinely experienced God, but you couldn't tell at all by how they dressed, talked, or acted. 

After I experienced this I understood so many forms of religion and spirituality and the behaviors that come from those practices.  I even had a very good understanding of the old testament God and why he's written in the way he is as violent and deranged (granted that's a complete misunderstanding of it in my opinion, just as the concept of God as loving and caring for humans is equally mislead).  But anyways, I'm glad some of you got something out of this thread and if anyone else wants to discuss stuff constructively with me I'm more than happy. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Heart of Space

[kurt]

1 hour ago, Heart of Space said:

I'm a silly human like everyone else with my own interests and desires.  

Yes. To understand God takes a fair amount of work using a process called superimposition and negation. God is non dual understanding, we would never get it unless we do the negation process (takes years) and then be able to recognise consciousness in place of the "matter" that normal people see.  

 

1 hour ago, Heart of Space said:

And as I said before, from my experience you do not experience any other living beings experience's that are separate from your own.  So, saying things like "it functions in exact same way in everyone," does not make sense to me.  Do you experience multiple people's perspectives at once?  

You're right, I cannot experience your exact same experience at the time you are experiencing it.  But we can make an educated guess, us humans are all blessed with the same instruments in the gross, subtle and causal bodies. In the gross body we all have hands and feet, in the causal we all have feelings: sadness, happiness, relief, or the assumption of specialness are universal qualities in all people.  Empathy is used to make an educated guess at what others are experiencing. 

After all, you just confirmed the phenomena of empathy yourself when your friend said he suspects he resonates with your experience!?

But, your friend and I may also both be wrong and deluding ourselves.  But I know myself pretty darn well and have also understand non dual knowledge, so I can hasten a bet my guess is slightly more accurate.  Sorry about that, this isn't personal to me, expertise is yet another impersonal shared phenomena. I'm sure you have special talents of your own in your own field? 

Anyway, no issues here on my part. 

I have learned from this 

 

[Heart of Space]

1 hour ago, kurt said:

Yes. To understand God takes a fair amount of work using a process called superimposition and negation. God is non dual understanding, we would never get it unless we do the negation process (takes years) and then be able to recognise consciousness in place of the "matter" that normal people see.  

 

You're right, I cannot experience your exact same experience at the time you are experiencing it.  But we can make an educated guess, us humans are all blessed with the same instruments in the gross, subtle and causal bodies. In the gross body we all have hands and feet, in the causal we all have feelings: sadness, happiness, relief, or the assumption of specialness are universal qualities in all people.  Empathy is used to make an educated guess at what others are experiencing. 

After all, you just confirmed the phenomena of empathy yourself when your friend said he suspects he resonates with your experience!?

But, your friend and I may also both be wrong and deluding ourselves.  But I know myself pretty darn well and have also understand non dual knowledge, so I can hasten a bet my guess is slightly more accurate.  Sorry about that, this isn't personal to me, expertise is yet another impersonal shared phenomena. I'm sure you have special talents of your own in your own field? 

Anyway, no issues here on my part. 

I have learned from this 

 

I'm glad you responded in the way you did here.  I misjudged you.  At first I thought you were threatened by my claim and was trying to have some sort of battle of the ego's, but this post clearly shows that you're genuinely just questioning my experience.  That is completely welcome and understandable.  I'd have the same exact reaction if I were you before this. 

No doubt that I'm not at the pinnacle of spiritual development, I hope I haven't given the impression that I think I am.  I am still just a child in that regard and have an infinite stretch of potential spiritual growth ahead of me.  So, don't confuse this thread for me claiming that I'm some sort of guru, because I'm not.  But, I did have a very profound experience that was ego transcending, and yes a non-dual experience of reality.  Granted, it was temporary.  I fully understood what God was and was God itself.  It was far beyond what's possible in a delusion of the mind.  I can't show you evidence of this experience, I can't even communicate it fully, I can only try.  One of the thoughts I had as I was pacing around in utter shock after it happened and the experience (or non-experience if you want to be picky with language) was that it would be pointless to attempt to communicate it and that I shouldn't even try.  It would just be labored effort, which would fail completely. 

The general take away I had for my life in general is that I should live my life with respect for all others and my experience even for the people and things I had previously chosen to perceive as negative. To have absolute reverence for all things in reality, like the most exquisitely beautiful sight of the sun falling below an awe inspiring mountain range, and even seemingly banal things like the stinky smell of an unwashed sock on your floor (ESPECIALLY the unwashed sock).  As I said I smelled some nasty shit and I was in complete awe and reverence after this.  I was just in awe of the experience I had been so flippantly dismissive and arrogant towards previously.  And humility to the unrelenting power and vastness of the universe which allows my profoundly frail existence to be.

Regardless of what you think, this had a profound effect on my existence and I will continue my spiritual life and growth.  It is never ending, until death of course.  
 

Quote

 

Yes. To understand God takes a fair amount of work using a process called superimposition and negation. God is non dual understanding, we would never get it unless we do the negation process (takes years) and then be able to recognise consciousness in place of the "matter" that normal people see.

 

This is a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow I think, especially "spiritual" people, but this by in large is ego talk.  It is an egoic pursuit.  Are you sure you haven't just built up an identity and life around these concepts?  An honest question that you should consider, not me attempting to attack you or degrade you in any way. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Heart of Space

[kurt]

19 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

I'm glad you responded in the way you did here.  I misjudged you.  At first I thought you were threatened by my claim and was trying to have some sort of battle of the ego's, but this post clearly shows that you're genuinely just questioning my experience.  That is completely welcome and understandable.  I'd have the same exact reaction if I were you before this. 

Don't worry, I'm not interpreting aggression , I'm long past ego battles (I think) but do still have some desire to chip in a comment or two.  Not attempting to question your experience outright like I'm putting you on trial, but more to suggest that God realization is a little bit more complex than a momentary experience.  That is not to say that understanding can't happen instantly under the right conditions, reality is non dual and is always that way for eternity, it's just out illusion that needs undoing, and that is the bit that is tricky and takes some work.  But you are always non dual consciousness, always have been, always will be.  An analogy would be like the pathless path concept, you are always already God, but we need to generally walk some distance and gain some understanding before we really know.  

You mentioned your death, which is another small indicator that your experience was not quite non dual.  Little bits of info reveal a lot, but that is not a bad thing, its a tell tale sign there is some work to do because there might be a block.  But I think you are on the right path in accessing a greater conscience and have a desire to be a "better person".  Again, a God realization would not lead to that kind of statement, because non-dual means that there is nothing left to do.  Knowledge of that kind is the end of seeking all these questions all of us have, like who am I?  What am I doing here?  Who is my creator?  Am I a slave of the creator?  Those kind of universal questions that all people are asking whether they know it or not 

21 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

 This is a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow I think, especially "spiritual" people, but this by in large is ego talk.  It is an egoic pursuit.  Are you sure you haven't just built up an identity and life around these concepts?  An honest question that you should consider, not me attempting to attack you or degrade you in any way. 

Haha! Degrade not registering, relax!  Youre right, spiritual paths can be an egoic pursuit.  But in this case I really mean that it is a lot of work, because even though you and I are already non dual awareness, we don't know this, we identify instead with a body, and a mind and a bunch of desires and fears that keep us locked into illusion.  And along with everyone else reinforcing the illusion its very hard to get out of easily.  It takes a while to understand our psychology, the "things" that we identify with, and some degree of work to get our minds prepared and still enough to make a moment to moment inquiry of negation.  Negation is netti netti, not this, not that.  You have been meditating a while, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are aware of how many times the ego takes credit or identifies with all of these "things".  It's constant ins't it?

Then there is the time it takes for the negation to become permanent, when you dont identify with any of it even though the thoughts keep coming up, you see them as pure illusion.  Nothing changes in experience, only understanding.  To get a solid understanding that you are conscious existence while your mind is still presenting thoughts of body and mind identification takes time and work and commitment to the goal.  Enlightenment is a goal, for the person, not for consciousness, but all the while were in a human body we're going to be bombarded with this stuff night and day.

There is not just the physical body to disidentify with, but the mind to understand, then the unmanifest mind (causal body) where the thoughts and desires and behaviours are manifesting from.  Then the apparent outside world is "you" too.  So you have to own that and then negate that also.  

Only when that work is complete do you understand what consciousness is.  If you dont negate the objects you will never know what the subject is, and if you dont know what the subject is you will mistake the material objects for matter (which is still duality, because there cannot be "matter" in a non dual reality, can there?)

So, if all that is an ego pursuit, then I guess it is.  But the desire is now one for liberation rather than a desire for pussy and fast cars.  So it works it works out a pretty good deal in the end lol.

50 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

But, I did have a very profound experience that was ego transcending, and yes a non-dual experience of reality.  Granted, it was temporary.  I fully understood what God was and was God itself.  It was far beyond what's possible in a delusion of the mind.  I can't show you evidence of this experience, I can't even communicate it fully, I can only try.  One of the thoughts I had as I was pacing around in utter shock after it happened and the experience (or non-experience if you want to be picky with language) was that it would be pointless to attempt to communicate it and that I shouldn't even try.  It would just be labored effort, which would fail completely. 

The general take away I had for my life in general is that I should live my life with respect for all others and my experience even for the people and things I had previously chosen to perceive as negative. To have absolute reverence for all things in reality, like the most exquisitely beautiful sight of the sun falling below an awe inspiring mountain range, and even seemingly banal things like the stinky smell of an unwashed sock on your floor (ESPECIALLY the unwashed sock).  As I said I smelled some nasty shit and I was in complete awe and reverence after this.  I was just in awe of the experience I had been so flippantly dismissive and arrogant towards previously.  And humility to the unrelenting power and vastness of the universe which allows my profoundly frail existence to be.

This sounds promising and valid and inspiring.  But it's still a subtle duality, because it's all one sided.  The good the bad and the ugly (including yourself and your own character) are seen as ok, nothing special.  The difference is in the internal confidence in the mundane and ordinary.  Again, I think your experience was cool, but it was not non duality, it was experience based and experiences are still situated in apparent reality (subject to change).

 

[WhatAmI]

Yeah I think it's incredible what you experienced as well! so many people live there entire lives meditating and still would not have felt what you did. 

Don't let internet trolls dishearten you. they're words are just as meaningless as anyone else's. the only person whose opinion matters is yours! because you created it

[Heart of Space]

17 hours ago, kurt said:

Don't worry, I'm not interpreting aggression , I'm long past ego battles (I think) but do still have some desire to chip in a comment or two.  Not attempting to question your experience outright like I'm putting you on trial, but more to suggest that God realization is a little bit more complex than a momentary experience.  That is not to say that understanding can't happen instantly under the right conditions, reality is non dual and is always that way for eternity, it's just out illusion that needs undoing, and that is the bit that is tricky and takes some work.  But you are always non dual consciousness, always have been, always will be.  An analogy would be like the pathless path concept, you are always already God, but we need to generally walk some distance and gain some understanding before we really know.  

You mentioned your death, which is another small indicator that your experience was not quite non dual.  Little bits of info reveal a lot, but that is not a bad thing, its a tell tale sign there is some work to do because there might be a block.  But I think you are on the right path in accessing a greater conscience and have a desire to be a "better person".  Again, a God realization would not lead to that kind of statement, because non-dual means that there is nothing left to do.  Knowledge of that kind is the end of seeking all these questions all of us have, like who am I?  What am I doing here?  Who is my creator?  Am I a slave of the creator?  Those kind of universal questions that all people are asking whether they know it or not 

Haha! Degrade not registering, relax!  Youre right, spiritual paths can be an egoic pursuit.  But in this case I really mean that it is a lot of work, because even though you and I are already non dual awareness, we don't know this, we identify instead with a body, and a mind and a bunch of desires and fears that keep us locked into illusion.  And along with everyone else reinforcing the illusion its very hard to get out of easily.  It takes a while to understand our psychology, the "things" that we identify with, and some degree of work to get our minds prepared and still enough to make a moment to moment inquiry of negation.  Negation is netti netti, not this, not that.  You have been meditating a while, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are aware of how many times the ego takes credit or identifies with all of these "things".  It's constant ins't it?

Then there is the time it takes for the negation to become permanent, when you dont identify with any of it even though the thoughts keep coming up, you see them as pure illusion.  Nothing changes in experience, only understanding.  To get a solid understanding that you are conscious existence while your mind is still presenting thoughts of body and mind identification takes time and work and commitment to the goal.  Enlightenment is a goal, for the person, not for consciousness, but all the while were in a human body we're going to be bombarded with this stuff night and day.

There is not just the physical body to disidentify with, but the mind to understand, then the unmanifest mind (causal body) where the thoughts and desires and behaviours are manifesting from.  Then the apparent outside world is "you" too.  So you have to own that and then negate that also.  

Only when that work is complete do you understand what consciousness is.  If you dont negate the objects you will never know what the subject is, and if you dont know what the subject is you will mistake the material objects for matter (which is still duality, because there cannot be "matter" in a non dual reality, can there?)

So, if all that is an ego pursuit, then I guess it is.  But the desire is now one for liberation rather than a desire for pussy and fast cars.  So it works it works out a pretty good deal in the end lol.

This sounds promising and valid and inspiring.  But it's still a subtle duality, because it's all one sided.  The good the bad and the ugly (including yourself and your own character) are seen as ok, nothing special.  The difference is in the internal confidence in the mundane and ordinary.  Again, I think your experience was cool, but it was not non duality, it was experience based and experiences are still situated in apparent reality (subject to change).

 

Fantastic post, and criticism of my experience.  I read your post and re-read it.  I will definitely take into consideration everything you said and I think you helped in a small way guide me in the right direction.  Thank you. 

I'm really lucky, honestly, that you took such time to analyze and point out potential areas where I could further my spiritual growth. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Heart of Space

[Heart of Space]

2 hours ago, WhatAmI said:

Yeah I think it's incredible what you experienced as well! so many people live there entire lives meditating and still would not have felt what you did. 

Don't let internet trolls dishearten you. they're words are just as meaningless as anyone else's. the only person whose opinion matters is yours! because you created it

Haha, don't worry, the experience was so profound and has had a deep impact on my character.  Simple typed words on an internet forum won't dishearten me.  There are aspects of the experience that I haven't shared which are deep and personal.  As I said I was truly brought to my knees in awe and cried a tears of happiness and sadness at the same time because of experience because of this.  I just hoped to communicate and maybe inspire a few people with this thread.  That's really it. 

I'm just happy to experience this.

Thank you. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Heart of Space

[kurt]

@Heart of Space

life is the teacher, 

I'm glad you didn't take the victim stance and blame whats going on in your head on the external world or the people in it.  

I find most do-gooders are victims and feel responsible for others apparent suffering.

Edited September 26, 2016 by kurt

[WelcometoReality]

On 2016-09-25 at 11:20 AM, kurt said:

Don't worry, I'm not interpreting aggression , I'm long past ego battles (I think) but do still have some desire to chip in a comment or two.  Not attempting to question your experience outright like I'm putting you on trial, but more to suggest that God realization is a little bit more complex than a momentary experience.  That is not to say that understanding can't happen instantly under the right conditions, reality is non dual and is always that way for eternity, it's just out illusion that needs undoing, and that is the bit that is tricky and takes some work.  But you are always non dual consciousness, always have been, always will be.  An analogy would be like the pathless path concept, you are always already God, but we need to generally walk some distance and gain some understanding before we really know.  

You mentioned your death, which is another small indicator that your experience was not quite non dual.  Little bits of info reveal a lot, but that is not a bad thing, its a tell tale sign there is some work to do because there might be a block.  But I think you are on the right path in accessing a greater conscience and have a desire to be a "better person".  Again, a God realization would not lead to that kind of statement, because non-dual means that there is nothing left to do.  Knowledge of that kind is the end of seeking all these questions all of us have, like who am I?  What am I doing here?  Who is my creator?  Am I a slave of the creator?  Those kind of universal questions that all people are asking whether they know it or not 

Haha! Degrade not registering, relax!  Youre right, spiritual paths can be an egoic pursuit.  But in this case I really mean that it is a lot of work, because even though you and I are already non dual awareness, we don't know this, we identify instead with a body, and a mind and a bunch of desires and fears that keep us locked into illusion.  And along with everyone else reinforcing the illusion its very hard to get out of easily.  It takes a while to understand our psychology, the "things" that we identify with, and some degree of work to get our minds prepared and still enough to make a moment to moment inquiry of negation.  Negation is netti netti, not this, not that.  You have been meditating a while, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are aware of how many times the ego takes credit or identifies with all of these "things".  It's constant ins't it?

Then there is the time it takes for the negation to become permanent, when you dont identify with any of it even though the thoughts keep coming up, you see them as pure illusion.  Nothing changes in experience, only understanding.  To get a solid understanding that you are conscious existence while your mind is still presenting thoughts of body and mind identification takes time and work and commitment to the goal.  Enlightenment is a goal, for the person, not for consciousness, but all the while were in a human body we're going to be bombarded with this stuff night and day.

There is not just the physical body to disidentify with, but the mind to understand, then the unmanifest mind (causal body) where the thoughts and desires and behaviours are manifesting from.  Then the apparent outside world is "you" too.  So you have to own that and then negate that also.  

Only when that work is complete do you understand what consciousness is.  If you dont negate the objects you will never know what the subject is, and if you dont know what the subject is you will mistake the material objects for matter (which is still duality, because there cannot be "matter" in a non dual reality, can there?)

So, if all that is an ego pursuit, then I guess it is.  But the desire is now one for liberation rather than a desire for pussy and fast cars.  So it works it works out a pretty good deal in the end lol.

This sounds promising and valid and inspiring.  But it's still a subtle duality, because it's all one sided.  The good the bad and the ugly (including yourself and your own character) are seen as ok, nothing special.  The difference is in the internal confidence in the mundane and ordinary.  Again, I think your experience was cool, but it was not non duality, it was experience based and experiences are still situated in apparent reality (subject to change).

 

Thank you for this kurt. great post.