Dead because of one hit of 5MeO (READ BEFORE YOU JUDGE)

[Blackhawk]

Methadone is very dangerous. It's specifically known for stopping the breathing. And it's often used for suicide. So yeah.. the methadone was the main cause.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Blackhawk

[Corpus]

The details are incomplete ie was methadone being used as maintenance therapy, or just for kicks ie occasional use? This alters the pharmacodynamics re plasma levels. Also he had consumed 2 other respiratory depressants (alcohol and a benzodiazepine) which on their own have a small respiratory effect but amplify the effect when taken concurrently, and this is before the methadone is considered. The brainstem respiratory centre also "utilises" serotoninergic neurones and may go a little way in explaining why people subjectively get that "I cannot breathe" sensation after vaping NN DMT.

 

[diamondpenguin]

Lots of people who sell drugs put fentanyl in the drugs because it's a cheap filler and this is very common. Fentanyl is instant death. That's probably what happened. Is a mixture of different shit. I know that an opioid and alcohol is deadly too. All kinds of combos are lethal. It was probably a drug combo that killed the lovely human being. 

[Girzo]

7 hours ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

And this could also be done with the Synthetic "Not for human consumption research chem" form ?

If you are asking about plugging, then only synthetic. Don't plug toad venom.

[seeking_brilliance]

She's seems really calm about it.. 

Very unfortunate, they were a cute couple and seem to have made a horrible mistake

[docs20]

As a soon-to-be doctor I'd say a few things on this sad story:

• Why on earth taking methadone to sleep? A good dose of Lorazepam might have been enough, Methadone is the closest substance there is to morphine and heroin... People who are not detoxing from heroin or that don't have to deal with chronic pain or some other conditions should stay away from it, and,most of all not, at all mix it with Benzodiazepines (Lorazepam) and alcohol
• With 5-meo-DMT we should expect more a serotoninergic syndrome, but it doesn't seem the case, if things really went as the girlfriend said
• It could be some allergy to some other substance but I would expect a different clinical presentation that the one described
• MOST likely, if as Leo says they might add Fentanyl to the substance, that the Fentanyl might have made the breath centers of the brain block, acting alongside methadone (opioid as well), benzodiazepines, alcool (alcol and benzodiazepines act together on the same receptor do slow the CNS). Also having ketamine still in your blood doesn’t help…

Medical examiner might be able to clarify that by testing the substances in his blood, which stay after a while from your death.

Since we can’t be sure, what we can take from this story:

• NEVER NEVER mix methadone with Benzodiazepines unless strictly supervised by a doctor. The combination is just used rarely in some hospital scenario where people can resuscitate you immediately
• Never have in 2 days: ketamine, benzodiazepines, 5-meo-DMT, methadone, and maybe even fentanyl. People have died for way less then this
• Start with low af doses, then maybe increase. Maybe the first and the second time to be extracareful it's better do it in a house where another person is present so that they can call an abumbulance, so that you are more sure that you’re not allergic to the substances that might be mixed to DMT.
   
• Do good sourcing (I don't know how).

I think that @Leo Gura needs to  make a post about how to source properly these precious but also risky molecules: they are amazing, and I saw that he also (rightly so) encourages careful use of them I think some talk on how to properly source them might have to be done to avoid people getting troubles with them.

Edited December 8, 2020 by docs20

[Corpus]

@docs20 Some good points. As a doctor-to be () considering the limited history presented it doesn't suggest that the methadone need be cut with fentanyl (and if he was on MMT he would get the "pure stuff" from the pharmacy) when you consider that he woke up 2 hours later apparently sober and with-it enough to get the 5 MeO DMT pipe out. Also, taking lorazepam with the methadone and still waking 2 hours later could suggest a degree of tolerance to either/both. If his methadone was cut with a super-potent mu agonist one would expect him not to wake so promptly with apparent sobriety if the combined dosage was approaching toxic levels. Another pharmacological factor to consider is that methadone is composed typically of a racemic mix of isomers, one of which has antagonist effects at the NMDA receptor where ketamine also acts.

Irrespective of the exact sequence of events, cause of death will likely be multi-factorial and attributed to poly-substance abuse, and the more agents detected will "confirm" the cause, and yet a post mortem might reveal something completely unanticipated which could also alter the picture.

[Leo Gura]

@Corpus Can one just go and get legal methadone from a doctor?? Or is it acquired on the blackmarket?

[Corpus]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Corpus Can one just go and get legal methadone from a doctor?? Or is it acquired on the blackmarket?

If you are a long-term opioid user who is habituated one can be prescribed methadone usually as an oral syrup (less commonly pills or very rarely IM amps) and this is known as MMT (methadone maintenance therapy). It stabilises ones lifestyle from the rigours of criminal association, acquisitive crime etc, and keeps withdrawal at bay whilst providing little in the way of a high. It has less recreational potential than the other agents once one has a habit, but for the occasional user it is pretty impressive. It is also long-acting and is usually just dosed once daily. In terms of black market methadone, some who are prescribed it may sell it (if they are not made to consume it under observation at the clinic/pharmacy) and use the proceeds to buy something more recreational. Some may buy it for something to fall back on if their opioid of choice (heroin, oxycodone, hydromorphone and also fentanyl) becomes harder to locate as it will keep them from getting dope-sick. But to answer your question, it does exist as a legally prescribed medication, and some black market diversion does happen, but it is not a preferred option for most.   

[Javfly33]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Corpus Can one just go and get legal methadone from a doctor?? Or is it acquired on the blackmarket?

You can get it either from prescription or from the black market

[Leo Gura]

If he got it on the black market, it could easily be diluted with fentanyl.

It seems like to get a legal prescription requires that one be an opioid addict, which, if this guy was, is the source of the problem.

I doubt you can just go to a doctor and say, "Hey, I'm having trouble sleeping, could you give me some methodone?"

The only folks I know who get legal methodone are hardcore heroin addicts in rehab clinics. But I could be wrong.

If this dude was an addict, all bets are off. He could have all sorts of drugs in his system. We really need to know his history of drug use.

[UDT]

NEVER EVER EVER 

Take pharmaceuticals to

- Numb your Pain if you can avoid it. ( I have a video on the effects of common pain killers, it is CRAZY. I am talking permanent alterations)

- Anti Depressant (only if you have a proven serotonin whatever problem, PHYSICALLY, which is maybe 0,01% of users)

- Sleep (I mean come on sniff some lavendar oil or get melatonin tabs, do breathing)

- "Stomach Issues" If you have acid reflux get baking soda, if you have digestive trouble citric acid (lemon juice)

- Even Headaches and Aspirin, Id be careful with the long term side effects of vasodilators (same with viagra etc.)

___

To the post:

Someone who is somewhat overweight and takes METHADONE !!! and LORAZEPAME (which is benzodiazepine, btw the stuff that made Jordan Peterson almost a dead junkie, and know he has permanent neurological damage) ....

and than smokes the most potent psychedelic in existence,
and then dies....

Well Its like the drop of water which made the bucket overflow. 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by UDT

[Corpus]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

If he got it on the black market, it could easily be diluted with fentayl.

Yes, but the timeline of events doesn't suggest it was. The story as presented does not fit in with his methadone being adulterated with fentanyl to a significant degree or at all, as one would not expect him to wake up 2 hours later un-befuddled. Occams razor applies until the toxicology/PM is done.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Corpus said:

Yes, but the timeline of events doesn't suggest it was. The story as presented does not fit in with his methadone being adulterated with fentanyl to a significant degree or at all, as one would not expect him to wake up 2 hours later un-befuddled. Occams razor applies until the toxicology/PM is done.

That's a fair point.

[SpiritualAwakening]

A couple hours isn't 2 hours for everyone, might as well be 5-6 hours

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, UDT said:

and know he (Jordan Peterson) has permanent neurological damage

How do you know that??

What kind of damage?

[Corpus]

12 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

A couple hours isn't 2 hours for everyone, might as well be 5-6 hours

OK. You are aware that fentanyl is typically used transdermally, trans-mucosally, by injection and vaporization? You are also aware that no oral preparation of fentanyl- as in swallowed- exists because of the much poorer bioavailability via this route? Meaning one would have to really heavily adulterate an oral prep such as methadone to make the fentanyl effective. Economically it makes little/no sense to do this for a dealer, to adulterate in this way. If the methadone was so heavily adulterated with fentanyl, such that it amps up the buzz, and the deceased was a casual user he would not wake up if we are blaming his death on opioids; if he was prescribed it then it would be unadulterated.

[Average Investor]

Just because 5meo was the last thing he did doesn't make it the cause. Sounds like he had a large cocktail of drugs going. Not to mention she might not even have known if he took anything else or if he redosed anything. Quality and quantity play a huge factor. That and drinking on top of all of that just seems extreme. Seems illogical to even go to a DMT forum assuming DMT is the culprit. Rest in peace. 

[docs20]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Corpus Can one just go and get legal methadone from a doctor?? Or is it acquired on the blackmarket?

Yes, but usually just given to former heroin addicts as a substitute to heroin and in this scenario it should be pure. I don't know if in the US it has also some usage for chronic pain in people with cancer. For sure not for sleep, at least that I know of, because I live in Europe. In Europe the US medical system is seen as too much loose on opioid usage which is not so much of a deep problem in Europe's healthcare system

2 hours ago, Corpus said:

@docs20 Some good points. As a doctor-to be () considering the limited history presented it doesn't suggest that the methadone need be cut with fentanyl (and if he was on MMT he would get the "pure stuff" from the pharmacy) when you consider that he woke up 2 hours later apparently sober and with-it enough to get the 5 MeO DMT pipe out. Also, taking lorazepam with the methadone and still waking 2 hours later could suggest a degree of tolerance to either/both. If his methadone was cut with a super-potent mu agonist one would expect him not to wake so promptly with apparent sobriety if the combined dosage was approaching toxic levels. Another pharmacological factor to consider is that methadone is composed typically of a racemic mix of isomers, one of which has antagonist effects at the NMDA receptor where ketamine also acts.

Irrespective of the exact sequence of events, cause of death will likely be multi-factorial and attributed to poly-substance abuse, and the more agents detected will "confirm" the cause, and yet a post mortem might reveal something completely unanticipated which could also alter the picture.

I agree, especially on the last part.

The thing is that when so much drugs are used in less than 24 hours it's hard to fully guess what happened in his system both in his brain and in his metabolic reactions in the liver.

What's sure that he combined within a short amount of time too much dangerous stuff for the CNS breath centers

[cle103]

Man, that's rough. 

Question for @Leo Gura and/or @Girzo: Do you guys test your substances specifically for Fentanyl?  

I've read it (or Carfentanil) can show up in LSD and powdered substances as well and that would be devastating.