Purpose of the 5Senses ?

[Twega]

What purpose do the senses serve? If reality is a giant mind, if everything is consciousness, and if reality is mental. Then why do we have eyes that seemingly are designed to look "out there." What is it out there I am looking at?

Alan Watts said, "One might say that the magic of the brain is to evoke these marvels (light, sound, heat) from the universe, as a harpist evokes melody from the silent strings."

Is this the purpose of the senses? To evoke from the immaterial emptiness, the "material" world?

[Preety_India]

Senses are to help understand reality. 

Both objective reality and hidden reality. 

 

[charlie cho]

@Twega A really interesting question. I have been inquiring into this deeply recently. (See my recent thread about how current science is a study of reality but our senses) 

Maybe the world is just one universal consciousness. Just one mind. Nothing physical exists. Just consciousness, just mind. Then why do we have senses in this mind? Senses and mind does not seem to interact together in a good relationship. They seem to be enemies where the senses continuously try to deceive men into digressing their way to Truth, Reality, God... etc. 

Senses are what? Pain pleasure in feeling. Beauty and ugliness in seeing. Music and noise in hearing. Taste and horrendous in taste. Fragrance and stickiness in smell.  It's fundamentally fragmentary. A picture of a mountain can never be the mountain. The audiotape of a Beethoven's moonlight can never be the song. However accurate the picture, however good the sound quality of the tape is, it is never the thing.

So is our senses. Our eyes act as cameras, ears act as microphones. But the camera and the microphone is never the thing. Why can we not abandon the camera and the microphone and listen to Beethoven's sonata with our real ears? Look at the mountain and the river with our own eyes? In other words, look at consciousness with our real eyes, real ears, real body? But what is the real eye? The real ear? The real body? Does that even exist? 

With that metaphor, i would like to state our senses are just cameras and microphones. Therefore, Buddha always said abandon the senses, or "restrain" "neglect" the senses and see beyond. (Much misinterpretation was implemented in these words but lets continue on nonetheless) Because the camera is just a tool to see the mountain. But we never see the mountain, we always see the picture of the mountain. So similar it is with our senses. 

So, consciousness is never antagonistic to the senses. Why does it need to be? Consciousness has no opposite. Real Truth has no opposite. That is why it is absolute. Therefore, there is no need to be antagonistic to the senses. Therefore, why neglect the senses? Let it exist. It is the yin to the yang. When there is a man, there is a woman. When there is light. There is darkness. When there is consciousness, we can also have the senses. A spice, the salt of life, isn't it? Why eat the food bland, when we can put some salt in there. Why live with only men? Why not have women there and spice things up, (although women had been and has usually been the cause of much chaos in the world) It would be boring to not have the opposite. 

This has been my observation. LOL. Sorry because it's long. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by charlie cho

[LastThursday]

The senses serve to narrow down or restrict the conscious experience.

Imagine that consciousness was disembodied, and so it had no eyes or ears and so on (no senses). What would the experience be like? Some possibilites could be:

1. A jumble of this and that from different places with no order to it,
2. No experience at all (except maybe the sensation of being aware of awareness but that's a moot point)
3. Experiencing everything at once.

If it's the 3rd one above, then it's clear that the senses are somehow "locking you in" to a definite viewpoint in space - and restricting consciousness down. Of course that presupposes that consciousness can expand out to everything at all. But maybe the proof of that is in psychadelics.

Don't forget, that the experience of having "senses" is totally within consciousness, so there's circularity there. In a way consciousness (or whatever) has chosen to restrict itself by conjuring up eyes and ears. Perhaps it's like a radio, the antenna can pick up everything, but the circuitry tunes into (senses) one channel. I find it fascinating that biology and physics could be somehow messing with the fabric of consciousness itself, but that's very much from a materialist standpoint.

Also, bear in mind that you have hallucinatory experiences, such as memories, and subvocalization which are not dependent on the senses. So this already gives you a clue that the senses are not the whole story.

Edited December 7, 2020 by LastThursday

[Gesundheit]

8 hours ago, Twega said:

What purpose do the senses serve? If reality is a giant mind, if everything is consciousness, and if reality is mental. Then why do we have eyes that seemingly are designed to look "out there." What is it out there I am looking at?

Exactly!   If.

People here don't question beyond that.

[xxxx]

I found this question interesting. I do not claim to know the answer to these questions, but this what I seem to think of it, with my limited understanding of things - do correct me if I am not on the right track.

I am sorry if this seems way too cluttered. I am still trying to figure things out - and have not developed the art of putting these 'abstract' thoughts out into pellucid, terse sentences.

.

To think about the 'purpose' of anything is where the entire confusion lies, right? Can we know the 'true' purpose of anything, at all? 

For example - The star-nosed mole doesn't let virtual blindness stop it from getting fast food. The animal uses the tendrils of its snout to probe the surrounding area and navigate through the dark. The tendrils can target 13 different spots a second, allowing the mole to quickly scoop up any snack it happens upon.

So here, I would like to ask - why do we not have these tendrils? Why hasn't the infinite bestowed us with these tendrils? Is it because we have 'eyes'?

Is there any meaning to sight, at all? Is it necessary for existence? What 'reality' does 'it' want us to 'see'? Is it 'feeling' through seeing, hearing, touching - does reality just want to be 'felt'? Can we 'feel' reality without these 'senses'? 

The mountains, oceans are a part of the same infinite reality - but do they 'feel' anything? Do they 'exist', because we can 'see' them, or would they exist anyway, irrespective of anything? 

Do mountains 'sense' you when you walk on them, or do the oceans 'sense' you when you swim in it? 

.

Another example, among the billions of unique ones - the naked mole rat that comes equipped with eyes, but they're more of a decorative organ. Does it 'look at' the 'material world' the same way we do?

.

Then, there is the ‘biologically immortal’: the jellyfish Turritopsis dohrnii. These small, transparent animals hang out in oceans around the world and can turn back time by reverting to an earlier stage of their life cycle.

Is the infinite 'favoring' these organisms over us? Why does this jellyfish get to experience biological immortality, where as, we 'mere mortal beings' cannot? Does it have any greater 'purpose' than us? We die, yet they exist - are we 'sensing' things, or are they 'sensing' things throughout? Do they 'perceive' the 'material world', or do they just dwell in the immaterial emptiness?

.

Also, not so much the 5 senses, but -

We used to have a tail, but because we didn't use it, we evolved into what we are right now - humans with no tails - what was the 'purpose' of that tail? Other mammals find their tails useful for balance, but when humans learned to walk, the tail became useless and evolution converted it to just some fused vertebrae we call a coccyx - human vestigiality. 

.

Just a thought -

-if humans were to be in conditions where their eyes would be of no use - would they lose the ability to see? We would perhaps exist, yes - but would we be truly 'alive' without these senses, if we are unable to properly 'look out there'? Would it turn into - what does reality want us to "hear" out there? 

-if humans were all deaf - would we lose the ability to speak? Then maybe, our perception would be limited to what we should 'look out there'?

-if we were deaf and blind, would our reality be based on 'what we could touch out there?'

.

So, if 'everything is just consciousness' - does it solely depend on anyone or anything's ability to make 'sense' of it, by giving it the desired meaning, or is it just as good without.

.

Is it a 'song' or just some sound we have given meaning to because that is all we know? The human range is commonly given as 20 to 20,000 Hz -but why do we not call every sound music? 

Is it just 'taste' or that we have learnt the best ways to adapt to life, with it being rooted deep in individual survival? Where sweet food was used to discern safe food, and bitter as poisonous food? So many organisms have died due to these 'experiments' of the infinite - did 'it' not want them to look at, hear or touch the material world the same way that those who were lucky to live got to do? Why did the things 'it' wanted them to go through be their end to it their limited existence? 

There's still so many frequencies we cannot understand, and our limited senses cannot easily perceive - so does 'it' want to be looked at only through those limited senses - is our brain capable of only this much 'magic'?

So, is the immaterial emptiness trying hard to be understood - or is just being, unconcerned with anything? 

@Twega

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by xxxx

[King Merk]

The purpose of the senses is....

 

to sense things

[Twega]

15 hours ago, charlie cho said:

@Twega A really interesting question. I have been inquiring into this deeply recently. (See my recent thread about how current science is a study of reality but our senses) 

Maybe the world is just one universal consciousness. Just one mind. Nothing physical exists. Just consciousness, just mind. Then why do we have senses in this mind? Senses and mind does not seem to interact together in a good relationship. They seem to be enemies where the senses continuously try to deceive men into digressing their way to Truth, Reality, God... etc. 

Senses are what? Pain pleasure in feeling. Beauty and ugliness in seeing. Music and noise in hearing. Taste and horrendous in taste. Fragrance and stickiness in smell.  It's fundamentally fragmentary. A picture of a mountain can never be the mountain. The audiotape of a Beethoven's moonlight can never be the song. However accurate the picture, however good the sound quality of the tape is, it is never the thing.

So is our senses. Our eyes act as cameras, ears act as microphones. But the camera and the microphone is never the thing. Why can we not abandon the camera and the microphone and listen to Beethoven's sonata with our real ears? Look at the mountain and the river with our own eyes? In other words, look at consciousness with our real eyes, real ears, real body? But what is the real eye? The real ear? The real body? Does that even exist? 

Quote

With that metaphor, i would like to state our senses are just cameras and microphones. Therefore, Buddha always said abandon the senses, or "restrain" "neglect" the senses and see beyond. (Much misinterpretation was implemented in these words but lets continue on nonetheless) Because the camera is just a tool to see the mountain. But we never see the mountain, we always see the picture of the mountain. So similar it is with our senses. 

So, consciousness is never antagonistic to the senses. Why does it need to be? Consciousness has no opposite. Real Truth has no opposite. That is why it is absolute. Therefore, there is no need to be antagonistic to the senses. Therefore, why neglect the senses? Let it exist. It is the yin to the yang. When there is a man, there is a woman. When there is light. There is darkness. When there is consciousness, we can also have the senses. A spice, the salt of life, isn't it? Why eat the food bland, when we can put some salt in there. Why live with only men? Why not have women there and spice things up, (although women had been and has usually been the cause of much chaos in the world) It would be boring to not have the opposite. 

This has been my observation. LOL. Sorry because it's long. 

15 hours ago, charlie cho said:

@Twega A really interesting question. I have been inquiring into this deeply recently. (See my recent thread about how current science is a study of reality but our senses) 

Maybe the world is just one universal consciousness. Just one mind. Nothing physical exists. Just consciousness, just mind. Then why do we have senses in this mind? Senses and mind does not seem to interact together in a good relationship. They seem to be enemies where the senses continuously try to deceive men into digressing their way to Truth, Reality, God... etc. 

Senses are what? Pain pleasure in feeling. Beauty and ugliness in seeing. Music and noise in hearing. Taste and horrendous in taste. Fragrance and stickiness in smell.  It's fundamentally fragmentary. A picture of a mountain can never be the mountain. The audiotape of a Beethoven's moonlight can never be the song. However accurate the picture, however good the sound quality of the tape is, it is never the thing.

So is our senses. Our eyes act as cameras, ears act as microphones. But the camera and the microphone is never the thing. Why can we not abandon the camera and the microphone and listen to Beethoven's sonata with our real ears? Look at the mountain and the river with our own eyes? In other words, look at consciousness with our real eyes, real ears, real body? But what is the real eye? The real ear? The real body? Does that even exist? 

With that metaphor, i would like to state our senses are just cameras and microphones. Therefore, Buddha always said abandon the senses, or "restrain" "neglect" the senses and see beyond. (Much misinterpretation was implemented in these words but lets continue on nonetheless) Because the camera is just a tool to see the mountain. But we never see the mountain, we always see the picture of the mountain. So similar it is with our senses. 

So, consciousness is never antagonistic to the senses. Why does it need to be? Consciousness has no opposite. Real Truth has no opposite. That is why it is absolute. Therefore, there is no need to be antagonistic to the senses. Therefore, why neglect the senses? Let it exist. It is the yin to the yang. When there is a man, there is a woman. When there is light. There is darkness. When there is consciousness, we can also have the senses. A spice, the salt of life, isn't it? Why eat the food bland, when we can put some salt in there. Why live with only men? Why not have women there and spice things up, (although women had been and has usually been the cause of much chaos in the world) It would be boring to not have the opposite. 

This has been my observation. LOL. Sorry because it's long. 

Interesting; appreciate the reply

[Twega]

@LastThursday , I understand that the brain/senses play/s a role in localizing consciousness. Otherwise, we would be overwhelmed with the sheer magnitude of experiences that we would dissolve into a soup of nothing and everything. The psychedelic experience seems to delocalize consciousness, and thus by a decrease in brain activity, we experience a state of heightened consciousness. Since everything is consciousness, then, of course, certain manifestations of consciousness (brain) correlate with changes in pure conscious experience.

"Yet, that mind states are correlated with brain states does not necessarily imply brain states cause mind states. . Assuming so is a known fallacy in science and philosophy called the 'cum hoc ergo propter hoc' fallacy." -Bernardo Kastrup

Anyway, I know you probably know all of this, lol. I'm just letting you know my position on this matter.

 

Now, the question still remains. Yes, the senses are held within consciousness, but why do we have them in the first place. Why have bio-organic machinery designed to detect (taste, smell, etc.) If the objective reality does not exist. Can't we simply detect vibrations without needing anything?

 

I'm not sure. My guess would be, the reality is cosmic consciousness and we (individual ego) are simply little fragments situated within this cosmic consciousness. This is why the ego can't think things into existence or alter reality at will. Because the cosmic consciousness is much larger than the egoic mind. So consciousness is localized inside the brain/senses, and our ego is localized within that.  The senses detect the cosmic consciousness that is "outside us." Which is an illusion because cosmic consciousness also entails that which outside as well as inside. It's a twisted mind fuck.

[Carl-Richard]

Just because reality is mental doesn't mean it doesn't have rules. A dream is purely mental but that also follows certain rules. Even in dreams, you usually can't see through walls because your eyes cannot detect photons from the other side of the wall (that is one model). The wall, your eyes, the photons; all of that is mental (and at the same time conceptual constructs), but these things still unfold in a certain way. That doesn't mean things like ESP or other psychic powers aren't real, but those powers are also bound to certain limitations.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[LastThursday]

@Twega I don't have answers or even a position as such, but I like to tug at different strands, to see where it leads.

11 hours ago, Twega said:

So consciousness is localized inside the brain/senses, and our ego is localized within that. 

Imagine a story in which the main character is a novelist. In the story the novelist is hard at it, writing the next best seller. She writes about the entire life story of the protagonist in every detail. But for some reason or another her book never gets published. On her deathbed she thinks back to her early life when she wrote that damned manuscript. In a moment of clarity she realises the story she wrote was exactly the life she lead.

So my point is, is the brain in consciousness or is consciousness in the brain? Taking it as a system there really is only three ways to view things:

• The entirety of reality is produced by the brain (and matter), and consciousness is just some emergent function of the brain's function.
• The entirety of reality is produced by/inside consciousness, and the brain is an emergent function of that.
• The brain (matter) and consciousness are two separate "systems" in a symbiotic relationship, and one cannot exist without the other.

Take your pick I suppose. I've currently plumped for the middle one.

So that being my position, then somehow consciousness has to explain the senses; as opposed to the first, where the senses have to explain consciousness. Or the last where we can explain nothing.

11 hours ago, Twega said:

we (individual ego) are simply little fragments situated within this cosmic consciousness.

That is the primary observation about the consciousness first idea. Consciousness somehow seems to be very well ordered and structured. We inhabit this persistent point of view and a consistency of experience which we label as sight and sound and smell. These in turn seem to be tightly bound to this hulk of flesh that follows us around, so much so that if we poke our eyes out, we become blind. Surely eyes are critical to our sense of seeing?

But. If consciousness is well ordered as it is, then there has to be a chain of orderliness to everything. In other words there is always a reason for things having a structure. That is the very definition of a structure! This is as opposed to chaos - or complete disorder - which has no reason for itself at all.

Now we're getting somewhere. It's clear that vision for example is structured: there  is light and shade and different colours and positions and depth and a billion other elements to it. And lo and behold some of that structure is associated with these spherical appendages in my head. What I'm saying here is that vision includes eyes. The structure and order of vision includes the structure of my eyes within my consciousness. My sense of vision is seemlessly integrated with the consciousness of the existence of my eyes.

What this says is that consciousness produces or brings forth or is responsible for everything it experiences including all the senses.

Still. Consciousness does give itself some wiggle room and allows you to see and hear without being correlated to physicality - as in daydreams and memories of youth. A man who becomes blind may still dream. And consciousness is probably completely let loose by psychadelics.

TLDR - Senses are in consciousness. Consciousness chooses to restrict itself because it's structured.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by LastThursday

[SoonHei]

purpose?
fun

[Mu_]

On 12/7/2020 at 8:33 AM, Twega said:

What purpose do the senses serve? If reality is a giant mind, if everything is consciousness, and if reality is mental. Then why do we have eyes that seemingly are designed to look "out there." What is it out there I am looking at?

Alan Watts said, "One might say that the magic of the brain is to evoke these marvels (light, sound, heat) from the universe, as a harpist evokes melody from the silent strings."

Is this the purpose of the senses? To evoke from the immaterial emptiness, the "material" world?

Its really beyond word explanations, but metaphorically its like the senses are a type of VR headset in which experience can happen for the sake of experiencing itself.  There's other headsets out there so to say in which new experiences will be available and experienced, for the sake of experiencing itself.  There's no end game to this, there's no final chapter in which you reach and its done, there's no answer waiting to be found so you solve it all or accomplish some task at hand.  The whole event literally is what we are, not this single life of 5 sense we've assumed is us.

[Nahm]

Life lessons from Helen Keller

 

1. Go after your dreams.

Helen Keller did not believe in living life timidly or in being “realistic.” Keller believed that if you truly want to be happy and live an exciting life you would need to go after your dreams, which by default could not be realistic – otherwise, it wouldn’t be a dream.

She believed that anything great that has ever been done, had to be different and defy odds…which makes it unrealistic and uncommon. She saw being “realistic” as a way of conforming to what society wants you to be.

  

2. You must have a vision for yourself.

Keller once said, “It’s a terrible thing to see, and have no vision!”. Keller believed that we need to have a direction and a grand vision for ourselves. It’s important to envision the future and imagine who we want to be, where we want to go and what kind of life we want to lead. If we can see it in our mind, we can hold it in our hand.

 

3. Nothing is impossible.

Helen Keller believed that people can accomplish anything if they stick to it long enough. She encouraged ALL people to stay committed to their dream until it works out. And, even if it doesn’t work out, the process of sticking with it will have taught us so much that we are now able to go and accomplish something else.

 

4. Experience is the best teacher.

Helen Keller thought that “Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. Reading, listening, and watching is great, but nothing can substitute the power of experience. Life teaches lessons and life teaches with experience. Great experiences bring powerful understandings. And, all experiences become great, when you look for the meaning in them.

 

5. Focus on the positive.

Helen Keller knew that everyone was fighting their own battle. Everyone’s battle is different, but everyone has one. Regardless of your situation, it’s important that we focus on the positives because that gives us the energy to keep fighting. Yes, the world is full of negativity, pain, and tragedy. But, it’s also full of people who are fighting against it!

 

6. Surround yourself with winners.

Helen Keller once said, “While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, it was done.” It’s simple, winners hang out with winners. Don’t waste your time hanging around people who gossip, criticize, complain and condemn. Of course, we all have our moments when we are leading the charge of negativity, but that’s all the more reason to surround ourselves with winners who can help pick us up when we’re down.

 

7. Your future is in your hands.

Keller once said that “What I am looking for is not “out there,” it is in me. You have been given everything you need to win. You have the same fundamental tools as the legends in history. Now, what you do with them is up to. Greatness and success are yours for the taking!

??

[Twega]

11 hours ago, LastThursday said:

What I'm saying here is that vision includes eyes. The structure and order of vision includes the structure of my eyes within my consciousness. My sense of vision is seemlessly integrated with the consciousness of the existence of my eyes.

What this says is that consciousness produces or brings forth or is responsible for everything it experiences including all the senses.

Dude, this really got me thinking. Thank you. I understand this topic better

[JosephKnecht]

Can you have any experience without senses? Try to imagine how that would look like... 

Give up the 5 senses. What are you left with? Pure experience mediated by your mind.

The purpose of our senses is to experience reality through the senses.

Once our experiences are satiated, we yearn to transcend them. 

[Rolo]

5 senses are to allow us to have a experience of reality, otherwise you wouldn't have a  sense of self and you would be one with the universe again. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Rolo

[juvoci]

@Twega

Senses, as they exist in humans, are simply aspects of the human experience. The ways in which humans experience reality is fundamental to what it means to be human. If we didn't experience reality through these senses, perhaps we would no longer be human; or at least, not the same kind of human.

There is nothing necessary or fundamental about the way in which humans experience reality. It is just one perspective, of infinite perspectives. My advice to all humans, however, is to take your time on Earth to deeply explore each sense.

Feast your eyes upon great art, architecture, natural and urban views; your ears upon great music and speakers; your tongue upon the great (and healthy) food and drink; your skin upon the skin (and fur, and bark, etcetera) of others; your nose upon the flowers and spices.

Experience each of these deeply and presently, without a care for the past or the future. That way, when your time as a human being nears its end, you'll have lived a rich life.

=]  <3

[Origins]

@Twega no it’s the purpose of sense in general, to channel reality, the sense is your muse for your consciousness and your consciousness the muse for reality into realising their interconnection, vibration, resonance. Channel what is happening in this moment, feel all of it, bring it to life, that’s the purpose. Experience all that you are right now, your senses are your microscopic lenses to bringing that under proper experiential exploration.

[Origins]

You have to realise that:

(1) reality is literally just a thought in your head

(2) you are reality

(3) to be yourself fully you have to simply channel ALL SENSE REALITY (includes all thought, all movements away and forward, notice it, feel it, embrace everything so fully your life depended on it) 

(4) you already are channeling it’s merely by degrees relative to our potential 

(5) so what is awareness other than channeling reality? There’s no distinction, just different qualities of awareness. Thought is a crucial but such a small part of processing perception. You want to KNOW, so channel that knowing in everything. Release all paradigms and experience RIGHT NOW. Who am I? Am I more the memory or are you channeling me right now? Channel. And not Chanel, although I do look/smell nice. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Origins