Doubts and Confusion whilst doing Spiritual Work

[ConsciousOwl10]

Hey Leo, or whoever fellow forum person,

This is my first post and not my last! I am still a beginner in this relative to all you more experienced people.

I have heard from Leo that things like yoga or the look at your hand exercise can take years and many hours of deep practice in order to gain benefits from. The problem is that, although I am determined and someone who genuinely want to access the truth of myself and reality, I can only sustain doing the self inquiry or whatever for a couple of weeks before I start to get depressed and hopeless from just being left with an absence of meaning or sense to the experience. I start having thoughts to myself like why does God make it so hard to discover itself, that nothing has any meaning, and whether there is any point doing it at all. For instance, yesterday I was doing the hand exercise, and although I am getting better at letting go of stories and concepts in head of why the hand is there, I can't help but to feel a sense of existential dread at the fact that nothing I think can justify why anything is here. I logically hear that it takes a long time or that a psychedelic can help (which are inaccessible where I live), but when it comes down to the practices I get a put off and wander how just sitting here for a long time is going to change my state of consciousness, since all I'm doing is looking at one thing in the present moment?! I can't justify it from my current state of being..

The post may sound negative, but it comes from a desire to understand how to overcome this setback in continuing with this work to start gaining wisdom.

Hope to hear from you, 

Tweet Twoo!

[Moksha]

6 minutes ago, ConsciousOwl10 said:

 

I can't help but to feel a sense of existential dread at the fact that nothing I think can justify why anything is here.

Welcome! Can you explain a little more what you mean here? If I understand correctly, are you looking for a thought that will justify the purpose of life? If so, is it possible that your purpose could be found in something other than a thought?

[No Self]

@ConsciousOwl10 Sounds like you are doing good work.

What will speed up the process is understanding that all the thoughts and doubts that come up are ultimately old mind patterns trying to re-assert themselves. Even the most subtle thoughts are a part of the old framework of limited thinking. When we 'buy into' these types of thoughts, confusion will arise.

Stillness is your real nature, regardless of what appears in front of you in the world, or in your mind. It's even possible to function in the world as if you were the same old person, but not take it so seriously anymore.

[PeaceOut96]

@ConsciousOwl10 From what I understand is that you feed up with the lack of results from the practises, and you get discouraged and depressed because of this. The solution is very simpel. Faith. You need to get super serious about it, and realize it takes a lot of disciplin, that there will be setbacks. But u most move beyond these setbacks, beyond the emotional up and downs. Let the your strong desire guide you, forget about meaning, and dont take the thoughts seriously. Negativity dont hold any power over you, as long as you dont react and take them seriously. 

[WonderSeeker]

Just know that you are making valuable progress by actually doing the exercise! Most people are too lazy to even give it a shot. In the beginning, it will feel like nothing is changing, and your mind will, in a biased way, only see the negatives. Keep going! It also may help to learn some more theory - there are some great books out there for this thing.

[ConsciousOwl10]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

Welcome! Can you explain a little more what you mean here? If I understand correctly, are you looking for a thought that will justify the purpose of life? If so, is it possible that your purpose could be found in something other than a thought?

Hey Moksha!

What I mean to say is that I logically don't understand how just sitting down and looking at reality as purely as possible can lead to a different state of consciousness. Say, am I meant to just sit there with the same emptiness for many months until one day I get a eureka moment out of nowhere? Because if I spend half an hour a day or an hour, it doesn't feel like anything is actually being revealed to me. I don't have a single reference as to how it feels to awaken in the slightest, so the more I do the practice, the more sceptical I feel about it. Maybe I don't believe it is really possible deep down and that stops me. 

Don't know if that makes sense?  When I do other things, my concept of progress is very different. For instance, when I learned to swim, even though I wasn't fully confident in swimming myself, I still knew I was improving. Whereas, in these practices, I feel like after dozens of hours so far, it just feels the same as when I started, just silence and staring into space. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by ConsciousOwl10

[Moksha]

@ConsciousOwl10 It makes perfect sense. Until it doesn't. Not to be cute, but there is a pointer in your last sentence. 

Silence and staring into space. That is more profound than staring at your hand. If you are able, let your thoughts recede, and ask the simple question. What is observing the thoughts?

[ConsciousOwl10]

@Moksha  Ok, Ill continue !

[No Self]

1 hour ago, ConsciousOwl10 said:

What I mean to say is that I logically don't understand how just sitting down and looking at reality as purely as possible can lead to a different state of consciousness.

If I may chime in, here's a few questionable assumptions with your story.

* Something needs to happen

* Someone needs to find something

* Your current level of consciousness is no good

* Some mental idea about a better level of consciousness must come to fruition in the future

* Something is lacking at this moment

* You are a mortal human seeking some spiritual epiphany

Who would you be if you discarded all that stuff? Or is the notion of peace and silence unbearable?

[Ibgdrgnxxv]

3 hours ago, PeaceOut96 said:

@ConsciousOwl10 From what I understand is that you feed up with the lack of results from the practises, and you get discouraged and depressed because of this. The solution is very simpel. Faith. You need to get super serious about it, and realize it takes a lot of disciplin, that there will be setbacks. But u most move beyond these setbacks, beyond the emotional up and downs. Let the your strong desire guide you, forget about meaning, and dont take the thoughts seriously. Negativity dont hold any power over you, as long as you dont react and take them seriously. 

@Leo Gura Leo why you gotta add hatred instead of making things pure? 

[Nahm]

AWARENESS OF THOUGHTS MEDITATION

By learning to watch your thoughts come and go during this practice, you can gain deeper insight into thinking altogether (such as it’s transience) and into specific relationships among your thoughts and your emotions, sensations, and desires. This practice can also help you take your thoughts less personally, and not automatically believe them. Additionally, this meditation can offer insight into any habitual patterns of thinking and related reactions.  

Observe your thoughts as they arise and pass.  By “thoughts,” we mean self-talk and other verbal content, as well as images, memories, fantasies, and plans. Just thoughts may appear in awareness, or thoughts plus sensations, emotions, or desires. 

Sit or lie down on your back in a comfortable position.

Become aware of the sensations of breathing.

After a few minutes of following your breath, shift your attention to the various thoughts that are arising, persisting, and then passing away in your mind. 

Try to observe your thoughts instead of getting involved with their content or resisting them. 

Notice the content of your thoughts, any emotions accompanying them, and the strength or pull of the thought.

Try to get curious about your thoughts. Investigate whether you think in mainly images or words, whether your thoughts are in color or black and white, and how your thoughts feel in your body.

See if you notice any gaps or pauses between thoughts.

Every time you become aware that you are lost in the content of your thoughts, simply note this and return to observing your thoughts and emotions. 

Remember that one of the brain’s major purposes is to think, and there is nothing wrong with thinking. You are simply practicing not automatically believing and grasping on to, or ‘clinging’ to your thoughts.  

When you are ready, return your attention to your breath for a few minutes and slowly open your eyes.  

 

Optional:

There are various metaphors and images you can use to help observe your thoughts. These include:

Imagining you are as vast and open as the sky, and thoughts are simply clouds, birds, or planes passing through the open space.  

Imagining you are sitting on the side of a river watching your thoughts float by like leaves or ripples in the stream.  

Imagine your thoughts are like cars, buses, or trains passing by.  Every time you realize you are thinking, you can “get off the bus/train” and return to observing.

 

Please be gentle with yourself if you notice that you are constantly caught up in your thoughts instead of observing them. This is both common and normal. When you realize that you are thinking, gently and compassionately return to observing your thoughts.  

If the content of your thoughts is too disturbing or distressing, gently shift your attention to your breathing, sounds, or discontinue the practice. 

Remember that you are not trying to stop thoughts or only allow certain ones to arise. Try to treat all thoughts equally and let them pass away without engaging in their content. 

This practice can initially be more challenging than other meditations. As you are learning, practice this meditation for only a few minutes at a time if that is easier. 

It can be helpful to treat thoughts the same way that you treat sounds or body sensations, and view them as impersonal events that arise and pass away.  

Some people like to assign numbers or nicknames to reoccurring thoughts in order to reduce their pull and effect.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, ConsciousOwl10 said:

Hey Leo, or whoever fellow forum person,

Welcome

Quote

The problem is that, although I am determined and someone who genuinely want to access the truth of myself and reality, I can only sustain doing the self inquiry or whatever for a couple of weeks before I start to get depressed and hopeless from just being left with an absence of meaning or sense to the experience.

Sorry to break it to ya, but Truth is totally meaningless.

The ego-mind will absolutely HATE, HATE, HATE this. To discover God, all meaning must be stripped away.

If you can't motivate yourself to sustain the practices you will never awaken. So choose what you want. No one will do it for you. And no one will hold your hand to realize God.

Quote

I start having thoughts to myself like why does God make it so hard to discover itself, that nothing has any meaning, and whether there is any point doing it at all.

Of course there's no point Do it simply because you want to know what God is. God cannot have a point.

Quote

For instance, yesterday I was doing the hand exercise, and although I am getting better at letting go of stories and concepts in head of why the hand is there, I can't help but to feel a sense of existential dread at the fact that nothing I think can justify why anything is here.

Of course. You have to understand that ego-mind will employ ever trick at its disposal to get you to not awaken. You must beat your own mind in this game by not letting it stop you.

Quote

I logically hear that it takes a long time or that a psychedelic can help (which are inaccessible where I live), but when it comes down to the practices I get a put off and wander how just sitting here for a long time is going to change my state of consciousness, since all I'm doing is looking at one thing in the present moment?! I can't justify it from my current state of being..

This work requires a serious, burning desire to know the truth. Without that you'll not get far.

Quote

The post may sound negative, but it comes from a desire to understand how to overcome this setback in continuing with this work to start gaining wisdom.

3 suggestions:

1) Build a rock solid confidence that if you continue doing this work diligently one day you'll realize the Truth. I have been doing this work seriously for about 6 years now and it has never even crossed my mind that I will fail. Because I care about Truth too much to even entertain such a possibility. Don't allow failure to be an option.

2) Don't listen to your mind when it tries to stop you. Practice a bit each day. I spent many years of just doing 30 minutes or 60 minutes of daily meditation practice while going about my business life. You can easily make 30-60 mins a day of looking at your hand. This work is a slow burn. You must pace yourself for a decade of practice. It will pay off, but not immediately.

3) Try to enjoy it. Enjoy just sitting and being conscious. Enjoy meditation. Enjoy looking at your hand. Life does not get any better than sitting and looking at your hand. Spiritual work is not about getting somewhere. It's about enjoy the present moment more and more. The only place you're trying to get to with spiritual work is RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW. THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS. IS. IT.

[ConsciousOwl10]

@Leo Gura  Haha I'm glad the 'Hey Leo or whoever forum person' line got your attention. Its' gonna be the new awkward greeting. Both you and the forum people noticed 'oh shiit is he talking to me or what?'

  And wow  Leo. I know this sounds a bit like fanboy talk but it kinda made my day that you replied on this. Its pretty funny how quick people respond to these things I am really impressed. It's hard to find anyone to find answers from in the real world. Can make you feel pretty isolated. 

 Thanks for clarifying this with these points. It 'means' a lot. ... I'll take these into account next time start getting doubts or whatever.

Edited December 6, 2020 by ConsciousOwl10

[ConsciousOwl10]

@No Self

Thanks, I didn't think some of the points were faulty assumptions, I thought they were simply true. They were subtle beliefs I realise now.

Edited December 6, 2020 by ConsciousOwl10

[No Self]

2 hours ago, ConsciousOwl10 said:

@No Self

Thanks, I didn't think some of the points were faulty assumptions, I thought they were simply true. They were subtle beliefs I realise now.

It's great that you understand. This subtle point can take away years of frustration trying in vain to make the ego 'enlightened'.

This is what Ramana Maharshi said:

Questioner: What is that one thing, knowing which all doubts are solved?

Maharshi: Know the doubter. If the doubter be held, the doubts will not arise. Here the doubter is transcendent. Again when the doubter ceases to exist, there will be no doubts arising. From where will they arise? All are jnanis, jivanmuktas. Only they are not aware of the fact. Doubts must be uprooted. This means that the doubter must be uprooted. Here the doubter is the mind.

Questioner: What is the method?

Maharshi: ‘Who am I?’ is the investigation.