Do I want to do pickup because of fear and insecurity?

[BornToBoil]

@Sleyker lol, there are millions of cool girls in the world. Missed one, gained one, who cares? Why should I do something I don't feel like doing and worry about "missing out"?

Also, that argument completely forgets about time restrictions. I can only meet a cetain nr of girls per week, per month, per year. And this number is low enough for me to be able to choose the setting that I prefer without "running out of girls to approach".

Don't be sorry about me. It's my life and I am going to live it the way I want.

[Sleyker]

11 minutes ago, BornToBoil said:

Why should I do something I don't feel like doing

What's actually going on is that you don't wanna face your fears and you hold judgements about approaching women.

I wanted to make you realize that yes, you're missing out by putting absurd limits to your social life without even trying it first, but it's up to you.

[BornToBoil]

@Sleyker it's not an absurd limit, haha. Most people don't cold approach girls and yet they have awesome fulfilling relationships.

It has nothing to do with me facing my fears. There are lots of other more meaningful ways for me to face my fears. And I don't see how approaching a girl on the street is more scary than doing the same thing in a bar for example. To me the only difference is that it just feels stupid.

Also, I am not saying that I am never going to approach a girl on the street. I may, if the situation is right. But I am not going to turn it into a grind and approach 100 girls per day like a salesman who tries to sell random people some useless shit.

[Arcangelo]

It's a numbers game eventually you will make the ''sell''

And what if the girl on the street is hotter than the girl at the bar?

It's absurd.

Day game is the toughest form of pickup. If you do day game, night game will be a piece of cake, because you have alcohol to socially lubricate.

You don't wanna do day game because you are afraid.

If I could I would do night game but I can't, the music at the bars is just way too loud.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Arcangelo

[ColeMC01]

@Arcangelo What if you practice with night then switch to day once your skills are good enough. When you learn the piano you start with easy plays not directly to Mozart plays hehe

[BornToBoil]

@Arcangelo it's only a numbers game if you turn it into one. Some people manage to find the "love of their life" after dating just a dozen people.

What if a girl at the bar is hotter than a girl a at the street? What if people have different perceptions of "hotness"? What if being hot is just one of the parameters and not the only factor?

Your thinking is absurd if you take it out of that pickup game that you are playing. Is it really that hard for you guys to comperhend that different people may have different interests and preferences in life? And that if you are into approaching 100 of girls on the street and trying having sex with them as soon as possible, then it's totally possible for someone to be into a polar oppsite of that? And that there is no right, uniform answer how one should date or live their life in general?

I am very clear about what I want as far as relationships and sexuality are concerned. I have my own role models in those areas and you guys aren't them.

[Leo Gura]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:47 AM, BornToBoil said:

@Arcangelo Don't you think that this need for sex may actually harm your dating life by making you to rush things and be impatient?

The need for sex will not harm his dating life. The need for sex with harm his spiritual life. Important difference

[Hello from Russia]

@BornToBoil Well, getting into girls' pants probably won't enlighten you, although there is this story about the monk who meditated for 20 years in the monastery, didn't get the Truth, then he said - " fuck this ", left the monastery, went to the brothel, fucked a girl and suddenly got his satory. So, who knows? 

With the girls, I found it is very tricky. The problem is that they seem to not be wired to love Truth or truth for its own sake as much as the guys do. You could even say, the girls actually love the illusion, which you could say is the opposite of Truth, right? But it is not so simple, actually. What I found myself is that truth and illusion are a duality, they are not really opposites and they all come in degrees. Try to give contemplating Truth vs Illusion a go, it can be very insightful.

In a sense, you could say that to be good at dating you need to be good at skillfully creating the illusions or "experience" that the girls will love. And you can find a lot of truth in these illusions too. It's not like illusions and fantasies are not the truth. They are, but it depends a lot on what frame you put these concepts in. And how you use it. In a sense, everything is an illusion and the art of living is the mastery of creating these illusions. You could also say, that the best illusions are the Truest ones, and the closer to the truth - the better.

it is a bit complicated. Probably the best way to replace the word illusion with the word "experience" which would mean the same thing in our context. The feminine really creates for Experiencing life and if you can give her very good experiences - you'll win in this game. And you could say, it doesn't even matter will these experiences be spiritual or not, it's more a matter of your the intensity of it (so she is positively stimulated) and your own style/preferences of how you want to live life and what you want YOURSELF to experience. I think the most important thing to understand here is that girls love experiences. Then, you can put inside these experiences whatever you want, won't really matter.

You could also say, though, that the most intense experiences one can experience are of a spiritual nature. So, if you can get her to this point, it might be a major win. They are typically not big fans of rigor and disciplined way of going about it, though, so it might be hard. But they tend to have their ways of doing it, which I am not very familiar with (Feminine spirituality)

For the illusion/manipulation dichotomy, I found a good mindset is to be very nuanced about it. Yes, you probably will have to create illusions, but you can do so consciously so they can (1) bring her to something good relative to her - well-being, laughter, prosperity, etc, (2) get her closer to the truth and try to not let her be too attached to the too relative too negative illusions. and also so (3) you don't compromise on your own values of truth.  You, in a sense, should have some standards in that domain and don't pursue too untruthful girls for your long-term partners (Simple dating doesn't matter that much probably).

And, I think, one of the most key things is that there is this dance in the world between various kinds of phenomena. You dance in between dualities, play with them, merge them, going in various degrees in them, recognizing these degrees. Being too rigid as to only care about one of way of Truth is very myopic in my opinion. So you should probably experiment with these things 

I'll give you the illustration from the top level of Asian Martial arts and its philosophy. Imagine having an aggressive martial arts style. Then, imagine the aggressive style done soft. Then imagine a Soft style. Then imagine a Soft style done aggressive. Then Soft style done a little bit aggressive (not too much). Then Soft style done superly aggressive. Soft also doesn't mean it is weak

So, in a sense, this is how you, imo, should proceed with this illusion & manipulation stuff. Creating the illusions truthfully, or, showcasing the beautiful illusions that are also the truth, or, the illusion that is full of truth, good intentions and integrity, or, you want to be truthful so much that you just can't help but create good illusions about it.

A lot of it is the matter of your own style and your particular situation. And, yeah, it is also so fucking complicated. But, in a sense, not going so nuanced and complicated about it will make your life even more complicated than that. There is also can be a high degree of egoic motives and dangers of self-deception in this subject, but it's hard to avoid it in things like that.

I hope what I wrote will be useful to you and other people who read it. I definitely got a lot of value by articulating my thoughts on the topic

Edited December 6, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[BornToBoil]

@Hello from Russia wow, that was enlightening 

Thank you for going into that much depth!

[Hello from Russia]

9 minutes ago, BornToBoil said:

@Hello from Russia wow, that was enlightening 

Thank you for going into that much depth!

@BornToBoil You're welcome

What I also found is that with dating it is actually EXTREMELY easy to do all this stuff and you have a huge leeway here. It's way more tricky with the long term relationship (which I am in, right now) as you project all sorts of stuff into your partner and want him to be X. And you also get tired very quickly by doing "fun stuff"  and "gaming" on a weekly basis. But that's my experience so far, probably can make it better somehow. This is probably when the more robust and authentic illusion is needed, a vision, rather than some dumb story you tell the girl in the mall and she'll be joyful about it and it will all work out great

Edited December 6, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Leo Gura]

The feminine generally values feelings over truth.

Although of course Love and Truth are identical.

The feminine will care more about not hurting your feelings than telling you the cold hard truth.

[Farnaby]

@BornToBoil I think like everything else pick up can become something that one can overthink, which would defeat the purpose. I honestly would focus on general confidence, doing stuff that ignites your passion for life, etc., and you will probably not need the pick up techniques. 

That being said, understanding the general principles of attraction, charisma and practicing social skills is never a bad idea and as far as I know, some pick up out there can help a lot with all of that.

Personally, I've never intentionally practiced pick up and I've had a few long term relationships and a few one night stands. I'm sure I could have gotten laid more often if I actively learnt and practiced pick up and I admit that my fear of approaching women would make me identify with thought stories like "nah, I don't find her THAT attractive", "this is just going to be weird, let's better not do it" and so on. So I'm sure a part of my rejection to try pick up stuff was out of fear. 

However, what I really always want deep down isn't just getting laid with a high number of women but a deeper connection and intimacy. Not saying you can't get that through pick up, but pick up isn't the only way. Paradoxically when I've been less fixated on meeting women and just doing my thing, having fun, etc., that's when I met women without having to think too much about it  

[Arcangelo]

^Amazing. Thank you!

[BornToBoil]

@Etherial Cat your opinion is very welcome! I think that I resonate with your view on things the most out of what was said in this thread.

Thank you )

[BornToBoil]

@Farnaby that's what I want as well. But I think that pickup can be useful to get me started. Also think that I use the term "pickup" very vroadly here, basically meaning actively learning how to date.

8 hours ago, Farnaby said:

@BornToBoil paradoxically when I've been less fixated on meeting women and just doing my thing, having fun, etc., that's when I met women without having to think too much about it  

I actually heard a lot of stories like that but I don't think I'll be lucky like that without putting in some work first.