Do I want to do pickup because of fear and insecurity?

[BornToBoil]

Hi guys, I wanted to get into pickup recently, but I have this thought that comes up and I don't know how to argue with it.

My thinking goes more or less like this:

Why do I want to do pickup? Is it only because I am afraid and don't believe that I can get a girlfriend by being myself? Do I want to approach hundreds of girls to feel better about myself? If so, then is my confidence and self-worth defined by the number of girls I can attract? 

Why do I need to learn all these techniques and manipulate people to do something as basic as dating? The only reason that I can come up with is that I don't feel like I am enough. If that's true, then I have to work on my self-image and insecurities and not dating strategies.

If I was absolutely secure and confident in my ability to create a fulfilling relationship would I ever consider getting into pickup? Probably I wouldn't. If so, then isn't getting into pickup would mean me giving up and choosing the easier external solution for the internal problems and insecurities that I have?

Is that way of thinking wrong or right? I am confused and will be happy to hear your arguments for either side.

[Leo Gura]

Lol

Oh the excuses the mind will concoct just to not approach a girl.

IF you were great at being authentic around hot girls and approaching them consistently without fear, you would already be a master of pickup.

But you ain't. Your game sucks balls, hence the existence of pickup.

Med student: What if the only reason I'm going to med school is because I'm afraid I will kill someone with my lack of medical experience? If I was absolutely secure and confident in my ability to heal people, would I even be going to med school? Probably not.

P.S. You also have a bunch of wrong ideas about what pickup is. It's not about tricking girls into sleeping with you.

[BornToBoil]

@Leo Gura lol, that actually makes sense, thanks Leo!

[Hello from Russia]

You also seem to hold a negatively biased view on manipulation. Yes, pickup is a pretty much 100% about manipulation, just like any other type of relating to someone.

But what is wrong about it? Is it really the manipulation bad or is it something else that is bad? Give it a contemplation, bro. Would manipulating someone into some positive state be bad? For example, making a girl laugh, or making someone feel loved. Making someone laugh = manipulation, you see? You can't make someone feel something without manipulation by the definition. So, there probably more about the way it is done rather than the concept of manipulation itself...

There is a lot more juiciness in this topic

Edited December 5, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Strangeloop]

Don't know bro... I feel kinda the same, but at the same time it's a bit different. meaning that there is a conflict inside which hasn't been solved yet. First find a way to resolve these conflicts and then start thinking about approaching women be it on the street in a grocery store or wherever.

[BornToBoil]

@Hello from Russia You are right, the intention matters. To be honest I haven't given it much thought before, but what I meant by manipulation was something like what Leo mentioned in some other thread here:

Quote

Do not act like you're exclusive with a girl while there hasn't even been sex yet. This is needy behavior. She should sense some threat that if she doesn't lock you down you will have plenty of options with other girls. Set up your attitude and lifestyle such that she feels that you are the type of guy who has plenty of options. That doesn't necessarily mean you will use all those options, but she should feel lucky that you choose her out of all your other options.

And I guess I didn't like the part of making her to "feel some threat" so she tries to lock you down faster. My first thought when I read this was: "Am I a TV on black friday sale or something?", haha.

[BornToBoil]

@Strangeloop I actually agree with Leo rn, I think that it was just my mind trying to come up with excuses. After all it's not like I am jumping of a cliff, trying won't hurt.

[BornToBoil]

@Hello from Russia , @Leo Gura I have been thinking about it right now and what about Truth? Shouldn't manipulation and Truth be mutually exclusive? Even if you use manipulation with good intentions, like making a girl feel loved. Shouldn't truth be important to us as people who are into spirituality and self-actualization work?

Just to clarify here, I am talking about a case when you try to make a girl feel loved so she gets attracted to you, even though you don't really love her.

Am I missing something here?  

[Leo Gura]

@BornToBoil Dating has nothing to do with truth. Get your head out of your ass.

[BornToBoil]

@Leo Gura ok, haha. Btw, I really appreciate your work, Leo. Thank you!

[Arcangelo]

Do I want to do pickup because of fear and insecurity?> In my case I do pick up because I want free sex.

I am open to a relationship though.

 

Arc

[Farnaby]

@BornToBoil I personally resonate with your line of thinking. Not saying that a big part of that mental narrative isn't the fear of approaching speaking. There's probably a lot of truth to that. But I wouldn't completely dismiss it if you think it's telling you that something about pick up isn't in alignment with you. 

In my experience, when you work on your confidence, your triggers and learn how to get out of your head, flirting usually comes easily and naturally. 

If pick up helps you with that, great. But I wouldn't reccomend just copying some scripts and tactics that don't resonate with your authenticity. I know that's not what "good" pick up is about, but I can't help to notice that vibe in a lot of people who follow those pick up gurus lol

IMO if it's fake, girls will notice it.

[BornToBoil]

@Farnaby Yeah, I am definitely not going to just go around repeating pick up lines like a parrot . What I am mostly interested in is understanding women psychology and improving my inner game.

I guess pick up isn't really a thing that I want to do for the sake of itself, because I am ultimately interested in creating a long-term relationship. But I understand that I can't really do that right now because of my lack of social and relationship skills. So I if I have to go through that pick up journey to improve myself then so be it ))

[BornToBoil]

@Arcangelo Don't you think that this need for sex may actually harm your dating life by making you to rush things and be impatient?

[Farnaby]

@BornToBoil

35 minutes ago, BornToBoil said:

I can't really do that right now because of my lack of social and relationship skills

While you may be right that you're having trouble with social skills, be careful to not 100% believe your thought stories, because they will influence the outcome. 

Ask yourself: how would I show up in life if I was confident and had social skills? Then go and do it even if you have negative thoughts about yourself. Embody that (if you change your body posture, tone of voice, etc. to a more confident attitude, you will actually start to feel more confident), experiment with it and watch the magic happen  We usually get fixated on the things we think we lack and that actually prevents us from breaking the patterns and works like a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

When you align yourself with what feels good for you, you will eventually meet girls without having to talk to random strangers on the street (btw, nothing against people who do that, it just doesn't resonate with me )

[BornToBoil]

@Farnaby Thank you 

Actually, that's the thing I definitely don't want to do. Approaching random girls on the street seem very awkward and cringe to me. I see some guys do it and it just looks stupid. I was thinking about going to clubs, concerts, bars, etc. to practice. 

But I am kind of afraid of asking the girls from my social circle out, haha. What if they reject me and then we will have to endure this awkward atmosphere every time we see each other )) 

But I know that it's just an excuse.

Btw, pick up skills should be useful in all interactions with girls, not just when you do random approaches, right?

[Arcangelo]

2 hours ago, BornToBoil said:

@Arcangelo Don't you think that this need for sex may actually harm your dating life by making you to rush things and be impatient?

No. If anything it enhances it because by rushing into things, 2 things will happen: I will get what I want or I will be ''free'' to pursue the next girl.

Win-Win situation

Number one for me is to never ever get friend-zoned again.

 

[aurum]

@BornToBoil

Some of the conclusions you’ve come to aren’t wrong. But just because they’re not wrong doesn’t mean they’re not an excuse.

Yes, I find it absurd that pickup needs to exist. In a more conscious society it wouldn’t. And yes, a lot of it is compensation for insecurities. And yes, you should continue to do the inner work.

But that’s all stories. None of that changes the fact that right here, right now, you are obviously not experiencing the dating life you want. And so you’ve got to play with where you are at.

Unless you have a better plan on how to change your situation, I’d approach a minimum of 100 girls before you dismiss pickup. You don’t have to have sex with them if you really don’t want to. But at least know you CAN do it before you criticize it.

 

 

[BornToBoil]

@aurum I am not necessarily criticizing it, as I have said, I have been thinking about doing pickup and that's just counter argument that have arised in my mind.

As for the better plan, I am thinking of doing something in between. I really hate the idea of approaching random girls on the street during the day. I wanted to learn pick up skill so I can use them in other settings, like meeting girls from my social circle or at least approaching girls in a bar, club, concert, etc., where there is at least some context.

[Sleyker]

4 hours ago, BornToBoil said:

Approaching random girls on the street seem very awkward and cringe to me. I see some guys do it and it just looks stupid.

Don't take it personal, but that's BS. And I'm very sorry for you because you're missing out on meeting hundreds of amazing, cute girls.

It might be true that if you take it to an extreme, you can objectify women.

But that's why you shouldn't think of it as 'ok now I'm doing the pick up thing, I gotta talk to girls'...

When you see a pretty girl on the street and feel attracted, DON'T YOU WANNA MEET HER????

Realize that every time you see a beautiful gal and you don't talk to her, SHE'S GONE!!! You might have had a chance with her but you didn't pull the trigger, 

Do you wanna keep living inside that bubble?

Edited December 6, 2020 by Sleyker