Personality without a person?

[Moksha]

Do you realize what transcends personality? Is the realization conceptual? Is it emotional? Is it ultimate?

[Osaid]

15 hours ago, Someone here said:

Why does the "I" thought keep arising throughout your whole life even after seeing through the misidentification? 

Survival. The ego's entire game is to survive, it's not gonna be that easy to completely dismantle it. It's tough for people to quit simple addictions, yet you think you're gonna completely remove the ego just by realizing it is false? That is going to be extremely tough.

Although, without any of the ego's survival mechanisms, I'm not sure how long your finite manifestation would last. I think some sort of balance between the two is needed.

15 hours ago, Someone here said:

What role do memories play in grounding your sense of self?  What is the difference between a memory and a thought? 

Now a whole pack of questions can open up about memory .is the past even real ? No matter where you look you can't find anything but the present and How can we trust our memory if any at all? Etc but I will just stop here. 

What if the entire universe was created last Thursday, along with all of your memories? What if it was created in the last hour? Or maybe it's all being created right now, in the present moment? Does it really matter?

[Someone here]

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

Although, without any of the ego's survival mechanisms, I'm not sure how long your finite manifestation would last.

But who is the "you" that needs to survive? I think we are talking about the body here. So the ego is necessary for the body to survive. But then you are secretly admiting here that "you" are the body. 

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

20 hours ago, Someone here said:

just stop here. 

What if the entire universe was created last Thursday, along with all of your memories? What if it was created in the last hour? Or maybe it's all being created right now in the present moment. Does it really matter? 

 

It does and it doesn't. My question wasn't particularly about how do we know when it was created.. I asked how can you trust a memory?  Ofcourse there is no "how" you just trust it. But I meant you have no method to verify that yesterday memories really happened.. So how can you trust it undoubtedly? And this Is a rather important function of your survival and function in society. 

[Someone here]

13 hours ago, 73809 said:

Of course it seems like there’s a you, how else would it be? 

Well if we agree there is no you it's compatible to conclude that there shouldn't seem like there is a you.. Right? 

[Someone here]

17 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

All the past experiences and accumulated knowledge for that particular body/mind organism. (otherwise known as conditioning). 

 

So the organism is conditioned to form an identity... Let's say a new born grows up In the woods by himself with zero external conditioning.. Do you think he will grow an ego?  And idk do animals have an ego? 

[Osaid]

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

But who is the "you" that needs to survive? I think we are talking about the body here. So the ego is necessary for the body to survive. But then you are secretly admiting here that "you" are the body. 

Yes, we're talking about the body. I said "your" body just out of habit and in order to convey my message. You can replace the word "your" with "this" if it makes it clearer for you. 

Otherwise, I don't see how ego being necessary for the body to survive proves that "you" are the body. I'm not too sure what your point here is actually.

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

But I meant you have no method to verify that yesterday memories really happened.. So how can you trust it undoubtedly? And this Is a rather important function of your survival and function in society. 

Is your question: "what separates memory from imagination?" There is no separation. It's just that memory is a specific type of imagination which is designed to make your reality seem consistent. It's just a story to explain how you got here, which is actually from nowhere.

Don't forget, it's possible to have bad memory, memory which is inaccurate to what reality portrays. Usually, when this happens, people will say: "you must have imagined it." See the distinction that's being made between memory and imagination?

The degree to which you trust your memory is in accordance with how accurately it represents reality. If you "remember" a chair being in your room and it is not there, then you wouldn't trust your memory. If it is there, then you would.

But really, memory and imagination is just a false duality that is being created.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Osaid

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, Osaid said:

Is your question: "what separates memory from imagination?" There is no separation. It's just that memory is a specific type of imagination which is designed to make your reality seem consistent. It's just a story to explain how you got here, which is actually from nowhere.

Don't forget, it's possible to have bad memory, memory which is inaccurate to what reality portrays. Usually, when this happens, people will say: "you must have imagined it." See the distinction that's being made between memory and imagination?

The degree to which you trust your memory is in accordance with how accurately it represents reality. If you "remember" a chair being in your room and it is not there, then you wouldn't trust your memory. If it is there, then you would.

But really, memory and imagination is just a false duality that is being created.

 

 

 

Very good and satisfying answer. Thanks ?

[ajai]

When the ever expanding and unlimited real self (ATMAN) of a Human Being his/her SOUL is mistaken as something limited and static it can be termed as EGO or self-identity.

What is this "ever expanding" self, what is the point of it? The point of this ever expanding self is to become one with, what you can say GOD. The finite becoming unlimited/infinite ultimately realising both are same.

Now from where that mistake is ever arising? It's arising within the ingnoramus, the whole point of being a finite individual, the DHARMA of every finite individual is to progress from that finite stage to a stage which has no limit which you might term as INFINITY, and the whole point of realization along the way is to realise that for which an individual is striving for, is no other than what he already is, now with that said shouldn't stop us at the very beginning saying when it's 'ME', what's the point of going down the way, also it's like asking What's the point of living life? Now that I'll leave on the individual, what else will he do if he is not ready to live his/her LIFE?

The point to realise is that when you say/term something as infinity or understand the ever expanding self, that in itself has all sorts of pain and failures waiting for you down the road, it's surely not going to be all ROSES, suffering is as real as happiness or being good or living in bliss is.

I advocate the philosophy that our ego is never static, it is dynamic and is ever changing, the more you learn the more flexible/mature it becomes the less you learn the more stubborn it becomes.

The more you move from Ignorance(even that is not static) to knowledge the more flexible you'll become and thus becoming more "grounded" in your real self.

On 05/12/2020 at 3:04 PM, Someone here said:

You can grasp in direct experience that "you" is false identification with thought.. It is not real.

There is some problem in this statement itself,

There's nothing to grasp in the so-called direct experience, What do you mean by Direct Experience?

If you, me or anyone had experienced something "Directly" , why such doubt then, and what's there to 'GRASP', it is what it is, which is direct is DIRECT, no explanation is demanded/required thereafter.

On 05/12/2020 at 3:04 PM, Someone here said:

Who you think you are is not who you actually are. Who you think are - the ego is literally just a thought.

If you had to begin with your Spiritual Teachings and teach an ignoramus, and if you start with- "You are not what you think you are, this Ego/Body", haha, this is like telling a noob mountain trekker to trek Mount Everest, this is like hitting him/her on his/her head repeatedly and forcefully commanding that you are going to trek Everest today itself, either you do that or you know nothing or you are NO good,

But in actuality when you say "Direct Experience" it is to first experience the ground where you are either standing or sitting on, primarily, then we shall move forward, first and foremost thing is to accept that I don't know, and this limited self EGO/SELF INDENTITY is what I currently AM, and I'm going to seek my higher self, first and foremost thing is to embody your finite being, your EGO, then only you can make the case to nurture it for a more mature one and ultimately realising that from where you started and whatever stage you will be on, is no different but the same from where you started,in the sense that you must become as directly conscious of the fact of being an EGO as being a GOD.

As for thoughts and memories these are just concepts, I like to see memory as the storage device(non-volatile) on my smartphone which I can visit whenever I want to access my stored files, this function in the brain is performed by synapses, the whole idea of past, present and future of TIME in general arise from here, this is as per what I have read until now in certain theories. Whereas thoughts are just like notifications in our smartphones (volatile memory).

Personality is just another fancy concept, I won't go deeper into it and will end by just saying, the word came from the early 20th century: Latin, literally ‘mask, character played by an actor’. Even playwrights wrote whole lot of plays in antiquity in and around a particular characters, different characters in different plays, but the writer being the same, these are the roots of the term PERSONALITY, the term sounds cool, huh.

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by ajai

[VeganAwake]

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

So the organism is conditioned to form an identity...

Well when the body is born, it is given a name and birth certificate, then as it grows it is told what is right or wrong; acceptable and not acceptable etc... essentially it's conditioned to that cultures norms by Society. (family,friends,teachers,law enforcement) An identity or sense of self is created and constantly reinforced. There's nothing right or wrong with this, its just what apparently happens ❤

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by VeganAwake

[ajai]

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

Do you think he will grow an ego?  

Ofcourse, for 'external conditioning' at a primitive stage, being only in and around HUMANS is not a necessity, the only necessity being the presence of external CONDITIONS for the sake of conditioning to happen, that condition could even be the WOODS.

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

And idk do animals have an ego? 

But I have seen a Lion Roar, seeing another Lion in his Territory on Tele,

And I have seen a dog bark, on another dog straying in his area on streets.

Now, why is that? Haha.

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by ajai

[Natasha]

@Someone here Humans are like  biorobots, different program for each based on unique set/mix of conditioning and DNA makeup, aka personality. Memories are thought forms with illusory content, stored in a robot's drive/subcobscious and pop up at random times or come up in dreams, etc. All biorobots are wired by the collective ego-mind. That's why we all operate in a similar manner, have similar design, needs, etc. But essentially that's what we are - walking programs. Then there is a question of free will, which is actually not that free, but only seems that way. All our choices and decisions follow the unique programming/conditioning. That's why 2 identical twins can be totally different in regards of their personalities, life style choices, abilities, giftedness, etc, though they were raised by the same parents in the same culture. The way we are wired/conditioned to perceive reality and respond to stimuli is what defines our individuality.