Why Does God Allow This??

[Carl-Richard]

I wrote this in the Spiral Dynamics Practice thread that could be relevant to your question:

On 18.11.2020 at 4:32 AM, Carl-Richard said:

Orange on God:

If God existed, he wouldn't let babies suffer and die. That is evil and unjust.

Tier 2 on Orange's take on God:

You can only place value judgements like "evil" and "unjust" on things like suffering and death from a very specific perspective of survival, in this case an anthropocentric and westernized perspective (as an example). That dying baby will feed billions of microorganisms and bacteria. Is that a bad thing? Obviously not for them. And is it necessarily bad for you? You cannot survive without microorganisms. Without death, the earth would be overpopulated, and then even more babies would suffer and die a horrible death. In many non-western cultures, death is seen as a much less threatening phenomena, which is often a result of recognizing its importance to the cyclical nature of life. Instead of asking "what is best for humanity?", maybe a better question could be "what is best for the whole?". Maybe that is God's perspective.

 

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

I don't know if everyone is God or not because I have not had that experience.  I don't parrot what I don't know to be true.

Had that experience le's say twice really, although the experiences were very different, one was more about the universe and one about god

long before i knew of this forum, not sure if i totally believe those experiences.

But i am definitely leaning in that direction.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Keyhole said:

Privileged folks like us get to talk about God in such a way, while innocent children are left to suffer and die.  It isn't fair.  They did nothing wrong to be born into a world like that and only selfish idiots say such things like, "They wanted to experience it.  God wants to experience what that is like."

It isn't fair, but it's still true ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

Are we all God?  No idea.  But I question if people had been allowed to come to their own conclusions before having them given to them by Leo, what would come of that?

 

I've for example had that experience before being told about it by Leo and i suppose many others did too.

But personally didn't take this extremely serious (as serious as Leo for example) well in one way i did and in one way i didn't, it's hard to integrate such a thing especially with just one two experiences of such a thing.

 

5 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

 

@Carl-Richard I don't think so.  I don't think that I deserve a more comfortable life while some innocent child is made to starve to death.  I don't think a just God would do such a thing, unless there was something fundamentally flawed with the material world.  And considering it seems as though this world is trying to either fix itself, or implode - that the underlying unity is lost to most of us - that humanity will eventually collapse - and yet, going past "the door" into death - where everything is peaceful - I get the feeling that something is flawed in the design.

Just because you say it is true, with a shrug, does not mean it is.

Is your life really that comfortable though if you think the world is basically hell? We all have our issues. People in the west have much more material wealth etc. But also a lot of us come from broken homes with broken parents and have mental issues etc. Sometimes people in poorer countries have better family structures and so on, sometimes also not of course though.

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Keyhole said:

@Javfly33 Whatever kid.  Try living in a poor village in Africa, then get back to us.

Just another person on here pretending like they have gone through what they'e discussing.  I don't appreciate the dishonesty.  If you're in the dating section complaining about not getting laid you sure as hell don't know what you're discussing here.  I would go so far as to say that I have a much greater understanding of this than you do.

Really.  Really really.  To anyone here.  Go through it first, or stfu.

(Feel free to warn me for the acronym, mods - I know you guys have your priorities straight here. )

Lol what that has to do with understanding reality? ?

If there has been a catalyzer for my Awakening it's been suffering. Although of course I'm not saying a lot of people have suffered a hell more than I had.

Suffering is not a bug in the design of reality

[Someone here]

@Keyhole this is a copy paste answer from Leo where I asked him why does God create so much suffering when he is all perfect... As it turns out.. Precisely because God is all loving and all perfect he cannot exclude suffering from the equation. That would be a bias. But God is completely selflessness. Can't be biased 

Leo :

"

Consciousness likes to dream. That's what it does.

Why would there be any limits upon what one can dream? The nature of dreaming is that it's unlimited.

You are still judging good vs bad. From the POV of Infinite Consciousness all dreams are valid, interesting, and part of the whole. God is not going to exclude stuff nor eliminate stuff just because a human doesn't like it.

You can't really appreciate how unlimited and powerful Consciousness is unless you experience some of the nightmares it can dream up.

Your question is basically the age-old question of: If God exists, why would he allow evil?

To which the answer is, God sees no evil, but you do since you are attached to finite forms.

Reality is far too profound of a thing to make logic sense to a finite and fearful human mind. To understand God you must surrender all your judgments and attachments.

God is infinite imagination, but you are asking God to be something less than that because it makes you uncomfortable. Well, sorry, but God has bigger priorities than you personal comfort"

[Pudgey]

Blame God for all worldly problems, but has given humans the tools to end hunger tomorrow.

But most people who complain that God allowed hunger are those who sit there and do nothing about it, as God.

You have access to the internet, philanthropists, agriculture, and communities to fight hunger. You can build a donation page/website,  grow your networking or marketing channel, and do what it takes to fight hunger. And if you're God (and everything is God), wouldn't you be God fighting hunger and not "allowing" hunger to take place? If you cared so much about innocent children starving to death, you won't be here complaining about it on a forum, but creating an efficient plan of action or putting your money where your mouth is and donating.

But, you don't care because you're an egotistical human that is allowing hunger to take place. But, God "loves" deeper and "deeper", so God loves hunger because it's also the children starving and the humans fighting it. Of course, you'll deny this-- not out of putting in any work in terms of spirituality but out of being a fucking lazy, wanna-be caring human that sits there and do nothing. If Leo cannot get you to put in the work to see you're God on a spiritual forum, then those children shouldn't expect a damn nickel from you. 

 

[Megan Alecia]

@Pudgey yet you are posting him an egotistical self righteous message. what makes you better than him? 

please. 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Keyhole said:

I don't think so.  I don't think that I deserve a more comfortable life while some innocent child is made to starve to death.  I don't think a just God would do such a thing, unless there was something fundamentally flawed with the material world.  And considering it seems as though this world is trying to either fix itself, or implode - that the underlying unity is lost to most of us - that humanity will eventually collapse - and yet, going past "the door" into death - where everything is peaceful - I get the feeling that something is flawed in the design.

Just because you say it is true, with a shrug, does not mean it is.

Everything you're saying is completely appropriate from a human perspective. But from an absolute perspective, why shouldn't death and suffering have the right to exist? From that perspective, we're being quite selfish and exclusionary. And that SHOULD sound completely ridiculous, because if it didn't, you wouldn't be human. That is just proof of concept. It's also perfectly possible to talk about these things while at the same time extending as much concern and compassion as you're doing to less fortunate humans.

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

Okay, so then why would God create something that is destined to be destroyed? 

This is just how things are. All forms are getting created and destroyed constantly. This is the very mechanism of reality itself. Nothing lasts   every single thing will get destroyed. Only the formless godhead is everlasting. I know this sounds too abstract to you. But really you have to train yourself to think metaphysically and deeply about these issues. 

Ultimately evil does not really exist. Out there somewhere  .  it's a function of your ego mind.  

Suffering is what makes you avoid dangerous situations that is threatening to your survival. If living creatures stopped feeling pain.. The entire living species will go extinct. If you stopped suffering.. You will die quickly . And you won't be here asking about suffering. Be careful don't oversimplify this things. There are many layers of self deception here. It all basically boils down to selfishness. You are complaining about poor kids dying from hunger.   But what are you going to feed those kids..?another Living creatures ofcourse. You see? 

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

It doesn't solve the problem, though.  Which is, our planet is most likely ruined if we don't act.  And we have to all live those lives!  There is no escape from it, except for everyone to try and fix it.  But no one is going to do that.  And one person can't. 

Can you fathom why God would destroy all this?

I don't want to experience or for others to experience that sort of Hell.

If God is maximizing love, how can it do so if there is nothing left?

Billions and billions of lives like that.  And you won't get to know that you are God - if that is the truth.  I'm okay with death, I wouldn't want to live as this avatar forever.  And suffering makes sense.  Death isn't easy.  But it doesn't make sense that God would ruin all of it.  We as humans in our little perspectives can avoid that, thinking about it, but what about the next life?  Or the next one?

I think we all need to put a bookmark on this and sit down - after death - and ask ourselves as the legion that we are, like... what the heck?  Are we going to mars or what?  Like, what do we do?  Serious, after we're all dead, let's sit down - or float or whatever, and redirect our species.  I don't think that just realizing God is going to cut it.

Have you ever watched a good movie that wasn't dramatic?

[PurpleTree]

^ maybe god wants you to enjoy life and this creation more, instead of feeling guilty and being miserable

do you go into nature a lot and marvel about it? how could you call that hell? it's basically heaven, nature that is

even if this species is going extinct you couldn't change it

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

but I don't wanna flex because I just do it as a part of who I am. 

Also i listened to this episode of Leo yesterday and thought it fits with this

(there are also looots of roles i play)

[SoonHei]

the thing which "allows" this is not what you think of as GOD

the better word is possible

how is this "possible"

the answer is that ALL and EVERYTHING is possible. and thus, it is possible.

 

God is a force in all possibilities. the god you know of as all loving/caring would not allow this. 

in the same way let's say an honest cop would not allow a crime to occur in his city. but if it's occurring somewhere it doesn't mean that cop is ALLOWING it to happen. 

 

existence is all pervading.

god/goodness force is half of it

devil/evilness is the other half

 

polarities

 

all is allowed/possible by existence

so the question of why God allows is false

 

it's like saying why does HEADS allow TAILS to exist on a coin

 

heads don't do shit to allow or not allow it

coin allows/makes possible both heads and in doing so inevitably the tails

 

TOTAL

ONE

BOOM

/thread.

 

 

[Moksha]

@Keyhole Some questions to ponder if you like:

• Is it possible for God to create anything that cannot be destroyed?
• Can Love, Order, Life, and Beauty exist without Hatred, Chaos, Death, and Ugliness also existing?
• Is Creation infinite, or is it limited? If infinite, is it not inevitable that all forms that can be created, must be created?
• Is it possible that, as localized Conscious entities, we create our own reality? If so, what determines the reality that we create?

[mandyjw]

There are more things than just food that one can be starved for. Maybe the well fed parts of the world is starving in ways they won't see. Maybe if we listen to our own hunger and fill our own "bellies" the solution of how to fill other's bellies with actual food will appear. 

 

 

 

[Someone here]

31 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

The species is going to go extinct.  Because the world is populated by people like you and me who can't come up with solutions.

No because it's God's will. Complain all day long if you want to. Or enlighten up and accept. 

There is more wisdom in swimming with the flow than swimming against it. ?

[lmfao]

On 03/12/2020 at 8:37 PM, SQAAD said:

Sometimes i wish that there was no creation at all. This would save us a LOT of hustle and unecessary suffering.

Now i feel like i am forever stuck in the mind of a God that i have no control over. Great!

@SQAAD Evangelion mood

[PurpleTree]

50 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

• I don't know.  A soul, most likely.
• Good question.  I guess I would want to know why the later is more prevalent.  What is the mechanism for it?  In the real world?  I am looking at a manifestation of the later right now, in which I could gaze at it and perhaps come to some sort of understanding but I find its presence intimidating.
• I'm not sure.  Generally I just wait until I go through death, and then I get another hint.  From what I know, it all stays energetically.
• I don't think so, not entirely.  I think that there is another form of order - or disorder, that guides our lives.

how is the "later more prevalent"? or do you mean just with humans? but even there i don't see it

[Moksha]

@Keyhole

• I don't know.  A soul, most likely.
  Is it possible that even a soul, at some point, ultimately dissolves back into the God that created it?
   
• Good question.  I guess I would want to know why the later is more prevalent.  What is the mechanism for it?  In the real world?  I am looking at a manifestation of the later right now, in which I could gaze at it and perhaps come to some sort of understanding but I find its presence intimidating.
  Perhaps the latter only appears more prevalent from your current experience, and there is an ultimate balance that must always be maintained when all perspectives collapse?
   
• I'm not sure.  Generally I just wait until I go through death, and then I get another hint.  From what I know, it all stays energetically.
  If anything can be expressed, what would prevent everything from being expressed? Is there any limit to diversity?
   
• I don't think so, not entirely.  I think that there is another form of order - or disorder, that guides our lives.
  A higher plan? Yes, I resonate with that.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Moksha