Access Concentration

[Mightymule]

Hello, All who sees this,

               I'm a noob with a serious monkey mind, and I am trying to learn how to properly meditate, or properly enhance my meditation through concentration drills to tire it out. I have all sorts of seemingly stupid questions about it, here are a few.

I recently ran into one of Leo's videos called "Concentration vs Meditation" in that video Leo references access concentration, he advises getting a metronome app and to concentrate on a certain aspect of the sound for as long as you can, repeatedly "laser focusing" on that aspect of the sound every time you realize you've wandered off in thought. I downloaded a metronome app and I chose a word (Ironically the word is one) and began to listen intently to a clicking noise in the sound. After a few rounds, I noticed that I can easily concentrate on the word, then it becomes unintelligible. I then notice that if I concentrate on another aspect of the sound, I can make it say different words. I know that sounds weird but is that access concentration or am I falling into a kind of pitfall.

 

Another question I have is should I meditate immediately after I do a few rounds of these concentration drills, or should I split them up. throughout the day?

 

Thanks, to all who reply

[4201]

17 minutes ago, Mightymule said:

I'm a noob with a serious monkey mind

When meditating, observe if you are trying to convince yourself of this idea. Do you use any mistep as confirmation that you have a "serious monkey mind"? I'd recommend looking for that when meditating or contemplating.

17 minutes ago, Mightymule said:

I recently ran into one of Leo's videos called "Concentration vs Meditation" in that video Leo references access concentration, he advises getting a metronome app and to concentrate on a certain aspect of the sound for as long as you can, repeatedly "laser focusing" on that aspect of the sound every time you realize you've wandered off in thought. I downloaded a metronome app and I chose a word (Ironically the word is one) and began to listen intently to a clicking noise in the sound. After a few rounds, I noticed that I can easily concentrate on the word, then it becomes unintelligible. I then notice that if I concentrate on another aspect of the sound, I can make it say different words. I know that sounds weird but is that access concentration or am I falling into a kind of pitfall.

What you describe here is hearing the sound "as it is" rather than what it means for you. Ralston describes this distinction in depth if that interests you. You are doing a great job. I don't think there's anything to worry about, you are on the right path. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by 4201

[caspex]

Don't worry, I think you are doing fine. Just keep going. Only thing you can mess up on this journey is to either never start or to not finish. (I think buddha said this, and I damn well agree.)

[Mightymule]

23 hours ago, 4201 said:

When meditating, observe if you are trying to convince yourself of this idea. Do you use any mistep as confirmation that you have a "serious monkey mind"? I'd recommend looking for that when meditating or contemplating.

What you describe here is hearing the sound "as it is" rather than what it means for you. Ralston describes this distinction in depth if that interests you. You are doing a great job. I don't think there's anything to worry about, you are on the right path. 

Thank you

[The0Self]

Access concentration is the state wherein you exercise the ability to attend to whatever object you choose. Effortlessness is not required. To achieve this, your main intention should be to express gratitude every time your mind recognizes it isn’t attending to your chosen object. This positive reinforcement will cause it to happen quicker, until you no longer leave the meditation object unless you choose. This does not mean you have only the meditation object in your mind — you only attend to the meditation object. Let everything else remain in background awareness. It isn’t uncommon or wrong to have most of your conscious power delegated to background awareness, but keep the foreground/focus as the foreground/focus (object that is attended to with a light but perhaps penetrating observation).

[Mightymule]

@The0Self I will try this.

[RedLine]

On 4/12/2020 at 6:25 PM, The0Self said:

This does not mean you have only the meditation object in your mind — you only attend to the meditation object. Let everything else remain in background awareness. It isn’t uncommon or wrong to have most of your conscious power delegated to background awareness, but keep the foreground/focus as the foreground/focus (object that is attended to with a light but perhaps penetrating observation).

I never understood the difference between access concentration vs no access concentration

What is the experiencie of someone who didn't get access concentration? they forget completely about meditation object? I don't even think this is possible if you have the intention to meditate.

 

 

[peanutspathtotruth]

1 minute ago, RedLine said:

I never understood the difference between access concentration vs no access concentration

What is the experiencie of someone who didn't get access concentration? they forget completely about meditation object? I don't even think this is possible if you have the intention to meditate.

I understand it as not being able to hold focus for long enough. And you're right, when your intention is authentic, it will come naturally. But it's important as @The0Self said, to be kind to oneself when drifting off. So "technique" does matter.

[RedLine]

1 minute ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

I understand it as not being able to hold focus for long enough. And you're right, when your intention is authentic, it will come naturally. But it's important as @The0Self said, to be kind to oneself when drifting off. So "technique" does matter.

Well, It doesn't make much sense since they present access concentration as something you achieve after a lot of practice but I think everybody can mantain concentration on a object without forget about it since day 1

[peanutspathtotruth]

29 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Well, It doesn't make much sense since they present access concentration as something you achieve after a lot of practice but I think everybody can mantain concentration on a object without forget about it since day 1

It does takes a LOT of practice. This term comes from the jhana teachings, which are absorption states of consciousness. Nobody will enter these states on day 1  You need a laser focus for that to happen. Some experienced meditators will say it's not that hard - yeah, as I said: keep practicing and you'll get there.

30 minutes ago, RedLine said:

everybody can mantain concentration on a object without forget about it since day 1

From my own experience with many many meditators, no definitely not. And also, this is not the point of access concentration. 

[RedLine]

30 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

It does takes a LOT of practice. This term comes from the jhana teachings, which are absorption states of consciousness. Nobody will enter these states on day 1  You need a laser focus for that to happen. Some experienced meditators will say it's not that hard - yeah, as I said: keep practicing and you'll get there.

From my own experience with many many meditators, no definitely not. And also, this is not the point of access concentration. 

Define access concentration then.

[peanutspathtotruth]

7 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Define access concentration then.

As I said, in the context of the jhana absorption states, access concentration is defined as "sufficient" concentration to enter the first jhana. You can recognize it when piti is arising and stabilizing in your body and you can switch your attention from your focus object to the piti for a stable amount of time (10-15 minutes) without the piti fading. So it's a definition relative to a teaching, it's not a fixed thing. It's there to help assess where you are with your concentration. 

If you want to study this, I recommend the book "Right Concentration" and/or "The Mind Illuminated". 

Edited January 23, 2021 by peanutspathtotruth

[RedLine]

1 hour ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

As I said, in the context of the jhana absorption states, access concentration is defined as "sufficient" concentration to enter the first jhana. You can recognize it when piti is arising and stabilizing in your body and you can switch your attention from your focus object to the piti for a stable amount of time (10-15 minutes) without the piti fading. So it's a definition relative to a teaching, it's not a fixed thing. It's there to help assess where you are with your concentration. 

If you want to study this, I recommend the book "Right Concentration" and/or "The Mind Illuminated". 

Acces contration is not defined by the piti.

 

That teachers define access concentartion as continuos, no distraction, concentration in the object. I ask what the hell that means.

[peanutspathtotruth]

 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

Acces contration is not defined by the piti.

 

That teachers define access concentartion as continuos, no distraction, concentration in the object. I ask what the hell that means.

Sorry but I don't understand what you're really asking. Different teachers interpret the teachings differently, so maybe don't think too quickly that you know all there is to it. I studied a book, namely "Right Concentration", which defines access concentration as I just did. I didn't say it is defined by the piti. Read again.

The book lifted many confusions I got from other books about the same topic, and it helped me enter into the first jhana, so I think it's quite accurate. But to each their own, maybe read a book or two about the topic to get the answer you're looking for.

Edited January 23, 2021 by peanutspathtotruth