How Leo's teachings can be detrimental to your Spiritual development

[Scholar]

22 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

That is from the perspective of a mind that wants to create and maintain the problem creation. That mindset doesn’t like light being shined on the process.

I’m not saying that there isn’t some truth within the content. Yet that  is a distraction from observing the structure of mind.

To understand thyself and the mind, one needs to observe framing construction. And it can be very subtle and sneaky. For example, notice the framing me as a “teacher unwilling to helpfully analyze a fellow teacher”. That is true within the context of the story, yet is also a distraction from observing at a meta level, since it protects the story keeps the mind is engaged and immersed within the story.

The thread you created declares importance of curiosity in spiritual development. Get curious and observe the mind from a higher meta view. You could be example Here and Now about how curiosity of one’s own mind promotes awakening and spiritual development. You could demonstrate curiosity, not knowing and mystery within this story you create. Be the change you want to see. And that starts with our own mind. 

Not every thread is about self-development. When someone points out an issue he observes within a given society, not always is it appropriate to point to the flaws of the individual who is pointing out the issue. It seems like there is an underlying assumption here that the issue I am describing is not real and that it is limited to my own projections. This is already very close-minded.

This thread was not about the importance of curiosity, it was about the importance of a very particular curiosity, a unique kind of curiosity that I described in my first post.

 

It seems to me that you could have dismissed any criticizism possible with the way you are looking at this. You do not seem to recognize the complete relativity of what you deem distracting. To you, this thread is a distraction from an opportunity of self-observation. To someone else, your persistent pointing out of this individual problem is a distraction of the pointing out of the societal issue. You yourself are actively engaged in creating a story of a problem, and you are quite persistent at doing this. You are here protecting your own story, your own problems, and it seems like that is your priority, rather than listening to what the student is saying.

Everything can be a distraction. There is a time and place for everything. I am glad that you are trying to help, but as so many times before, your impersonal communication feels to me inappropriate in this setting. It is perceived primarily as a dismissal, rather than a genuine effort to help.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Scholar

[Scholar]

12 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

@Scholar

"It seems like there is an underlying assumption here that the issue I am describing is not real and that it is limited to my own projections. "

I can see your point, I just think you're too early on this. 

I don't think it's the time for subtle hints. The way Leo does not leave for ignorant minds a lot of room to escape back I consider very important atm. If we were to live in a more compassionate, forgiving and opportunity enabling society this would have been more online imo.

There is too many present inhumane threats atm.

This however does not change the fact that students should watch out for this dynamic. Again, the point here was not really to change Leo's behaviour or content, but rather to make others aware of this. The thread is not called: "How Leo's teachings are detrimental to your spiritual development and why Leo should change", it is called "How Leo's teachings can be detrimental to your spiritual development". I think it is valuable to point out the issues I have pointed out, even if Leo has made disclaimers about this, I do not think they are enough for everyone so I created this thread.

 

A student shouldn't get attached to the ideas, and a student should be constantly aware of the little metaphyiscal mystery curiousity flame within him, and guard it at all costs. If they notice Leo's videos dim that flame, they atleast have the option to then find ways to avoid that dimming of the flame.

 

 

I recognize that my initial post was too provocative and judgemental. It did not come from a place of love, but rather a place of fear.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Scholar

[Moksha]

@Scholar I hear you, but do you think creating this thread actually changes anything? Since when has pointing a finger accomplished anything, other than invoking ego in the pointer, and in the thing being pointed at?

People that find value in Leo's teachings, do so because it is where they are currently at, spiritually. Another teacher's words will be hollow to them. Maybe years down the road, they will be ready to leave Leo's raft behind, and pick up a new raft that will carry them to a different bank. Today though, they are on the Leo raft for a reason.

Meanwhile, you are riding your own raft, as am I. ?‍♀️

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

Not every thread is about self-development. When someone points out an issue he observes within a given society, not always is it appropriate to point to the flaws of the individual who is pointing out the issue.

Get curious about the mystery of the mind. . . 

It’s not personal. I’m pointing to something impersonal. At one cognitive level, it’s perceived as “a flaw in the individual”. At another cognitive level, it is seen as a mind dynamic, integrated between individual and collective.

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

This thread was not about the importance of curiosity, it was about the importance of a very particular curiosity, a unique kind of curiosity that I described in my first post.

 

 

An interesting development. . . ? 

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

It seems to me that you could have dismissed any criticizism possible with the way you are looking at this. You do not seem to recognize the complete relativity of what you deem distracting. To you, this thread is a distraction from an opportunity of self-observation. To someone else, your persistent pointing out of this individual problem is a distraction of the pointing out of the societal issue.

This is within the perspective of a mind identified and attached to “the social issue”. Notice the repetitive assumption of the social issue. That is a major assumption and the key to expansion. If that assumption is deconstructed, the mind can expand another cognitive level. Yet the assumption serves as the grounding for which the whole story is based.

There are many ways to look at this “social issue”, yet doing so destablizies the story that “there is a serious problem and social issue here that needs to be addressed”. 

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

You are here protecting your own story, your own problems,

Story vs anti-story is a block to story transcendence. 

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

it seems like that is your priority, rather than listening to what the student is saying.

When there is a block from transcendent views, engaging within the block re-enforces the block. It increases construction. It makes it feel even more real and problematic. 

 

[Scholar]

4 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@Scholar I hear you, but do you think creating this thread actually changes anything? Since when has pointing a finger accomplished anything, other than invoking ego in the pointer, and in the thing being pointed at?

People that find value in Leo's teachings, do so because it is where they are currently at, spiritually. Another teacher's words will be hollow to them. Maybe years down the road, they will be ready to leave Leo's raft behind, and pick up a new raft that will carry them to a different bank. Today though, they are on the Leo raft for a reason.

Meanwhile, you are riding your own raft, as am I. ?‍♀️

You are right, I focused too much on Leo and too little on the advice. This is fundamentally about the flame of curiousity and how to uphold it. Rather than censoring and criticizing Leo, I should find ways to give people the tools for them to recognize their own flame of curiousity and nourish it. How to watch Leo's content without dimming that flame. That would have been constructive, it would have been loving, rather than fearful.

If I had been loving instead of fearful, my message could have been received by the hearts of others. What I have done was fear, so all it did was create more fear.

 

@Forestluv

I have realized something about the dynamic of this conversation. Because the place from which I have viewed this issue was fear, my heart and mind was closed.

The responses I have received did not open my heart. You have pointed out issues within the mind, but the fundamental problem was where the mind was operating from, not how it was operating. The lack of openness within me had one cause, it was fear. If we want to help our brothers and sisters, I think rather than just telling them what they are doing wrong, we must make them recognize the fear within themselves. That is the root of the problem. If I had operated from love, open-mindedness would have naturally flourished and biased would have melted away. The dynamics of mind which you would have pointed out would have had no need to be analyzed.

In the future when you see this kind of behaviour from me and you want to point it out, you could try to point out within my response the fear and lack of love. Before I can open my eyes, I must open my heart. Before I can open anyone elses eyes, I must open their hearts.

 

I think the analysis would have been helpful if you had opened my heart before communicating it. But if you had opened my heart, chances are there would have been no need to point to the mind anymore. Love opens your eyes and mind like no other thing possibly could.

 

7 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

No, not at all idiot. You came from soft intention and an elevated view that's why it was so easy to gang up on you, as it is always the case.

Don't let couple contras discourage you.

It is not about the message itself, but the place it came from. It came from fear, it is obvious if you read it.

[Forestluv]

@Scholar Thanks for your feedback. I agree with you that my mind generally enters cognitive deconstruction and analysis - and can miss dynamics of the heart and emotions. It’s an area I need to explore more and develop. Thank you for pointing it out ♥️ 

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Forestluv said:

@Scholar Thanks for your feedback. I agree with you that my mind generally enters cognitive deconstruction and analysis and can miss dynamics of the heart and emotions. It’s an area I need to explore more and develop. Thank you for pointing it out ♥️ 

Communicating in a forum makes is harder be conscious of these dynamics. We only see words, not each other.

 

[Moksha]

6 minutes ago, Scholar said:

You are right, I focused too much on Leo and too little on the advice. This is fundamentally about the flame of curiousity and how to uphold it. Rather than censoring and criticizing Leo, I should find ways to give people the tools for them to recognize their own flame of curiousity and nourish it. How to watch Leo's content without dimming that flame. That would have been constructive, it would have been loving, rather than fearful.

If I had been loving instead of fearful, my message could have been received by the hearts of others. What I have done was fear, so all it did was create more fear.

Don't should yourself any more than you should Leo

One thing I know about our schizophrenic community is that we are nothing, if not curious. There is a wealth of intelligence here, ready to stoke that curiosity flame that you are about to light ?

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Communicating in a forum makes is harder be conscious of these dynamics. We only see words, not each other.

 

Very true. So much is missed when we are limited to text. Facial expressions, body language, tone of voice and energetics has a lot of information. I’ve read only about 15% of communication is the actual words.