Isn't Reducing Ego Means More Vulnerability ?

[Lior]

Isn't reducing ego means more vulnerability ?
Ego seems to be evolutionary mechanism to protect us. Will we survive without it ?
Who will keep our interests ? 
What will prevent us from fall apart and dissolve in the universe ?

If reducing the ego but still keeping it is the goal, What is the amount of ego we need and how we mesure it ? 

[philosogi]

If ego evolved to protect us, it's probably lagging behind all the recent developments in human history, like relative safety from attacks from neighbouring tribes and predatory animals. So there are relatively few "real" dangers now than there used to be. You seem to be saying vulnerability is a bad thing?

25 minutes ago, Lior said:

Will we survive without it ?

Who is the "we" you are referring to? The current human population? Or the human race in general? Or consciousness? And when you say survive, do you mean our physical bodies, or the real "Being?" Ego is actually blocking the real "Being" from real consciousness. Our perception of consciousness is an illusory, inadequate, and poor reflection of what real consciousness can be, and often we are under the illusion that we're conscious when really we are acting unconsciously in most of our behaviours.

26 minutes ago, Lior said:

Who will keep our interests ?

What are our interests? Whose interests? Why do we need them? 

26 minutes ago, Lior said:

If reducing the ego but still keeping it is the goal, What is the amount of ego we need and how we mesure it ? 

You will start to know once you've glimpsed what it is to let go of the ego for a moment. It's not the same for everyone.

[Shin]

Removing the ego means no association with our thoughts, which means no emotional labour.

If you're talking about physical harm, I doubt that an enlightened person wouldn't defend themself in a critical situation, he wouldn't kill the other person/animal though, at least not intentionally. 

Interests are mostly egoistical, goal-based anyway, so what's the point of keeping them ?

There will always be a sense of self, otherwise the body wouldn't stand still.

 

What will prevent us from fall apart and dissolve in the universe ?

That's your problem here, you won't dissolve, just the fake part of you will.

The real you can't die, litterally.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Shin

[FindingPeace]

The ego has nothing to do with protecting us. Rather than being an evolutionary 'tool' it is more likely a side-effect of our other congnitive functions - namely language, memory and the ability to conceptualise.

On 12/09/2016 at 4:35 AM, Lior said:

Who will keep our interests ? 

The body is a system that is designed to survive. Ego or not, it will do what is necessary to protect it's physical self. The ego is not the body or the mechanism that maintains and protects it.

The ego is a story about a 'person' who has a life that has history and a future. It is an identity.

A cat doesn't have an ego yet it manages to survive successfully without it.

To lose the ego is not to become a vegetable. There are still brain functions that look after the body. All that happens is that the illusions, the ego 'smog', that currently distort your view on reality, will no longer be distorting it. You will have clear, untainted, view of life and reality. This will not change the ablility to survive. Or take care of the body.

How well is your ego currently taking care of you? How vunerable are you right now with the ego? Psychologically very vunerable.

 

 

[Markus]

If there's no ego, who is being vulnerable?

[Tancrede Pouyat]

Enlightened people have the biggest egos. The BIGGEST ones !

On 12.9.2016 at 5:35 AM, Lior said:

Ego seems to be evolutionary mechanism to protect us

It seems to be. Is it ? No. It's just a sense of identity. And enlightened people have simply aligned their identity with who/what they actually are.

Let me give you an example : Someone who has massive ego embraces no free will. Why ? They have a strong sense of identity and are completely aware that they have ZERO control over what happens. They really see that they - the real they - doesn't do anything. To them, things just happen, by themselves, for themselves.

On the other hand, someone who has a tiny weak ego feels the need for constant validation of it. And it will do anything to get that. Including clinging to wrong beliefs, being closed-minded, destroying the planet, killing other people...

You're not trying to reduce the ego, you're simply aligning it with Truth, and that actually makes it bigger.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Tancrede Pouyat

[Jonas]

 

On 9/12/2016 at 5:35 AM, Lior said:

Isn't reducing ego means more vulnerability ?
Ego seems to be evolutionary mechanism to protect us. Will we survive without it ?
Who will keep our interests ? 
What will prevent us from fall apart and dissolve in the universe ?

If reducing the ego but still keeping it is the goal, What is the amount of ego we need and how we mesure it ? 

 

 

Vulnerability isn't weakness. Showing who you really are takes a lot of courage and strength. The way the ego tries to protect itself actually puts you in more danger than if it was peaceful. If you're peaceful, other people will have a much friendlier reaction towards you than if you're defensive or hostile. 

And yes, if you reduce your ego far enough, it will dissolve, but you are not your ego and your true self will be able to shine through, so that's a good thing. You'll just have to trust that there is more to you than your ego

 

3 hours ago, Tancrede Pouyat said:

You're not trying to reduce the ego, you're simply aligning it with Truth, and that actually makes it bigger.

 

I don't really like the term ego, because it can cause confusion. Mysticism talks about the True Self and the False/Conditioned self. The goal is to reduce the False Self and strengthen the True Self. 

[Andrea Marchetti]

Yes, ego is a protection. Reducing ego means more vulnerability.
But only those who feeling attacked are defending themselves. More vulnerability means more strength, the strength to face what scares us. Ego is the mask that we put on what scares us. Vulnerability means facing fears.

Our interests will change as our ego changes. There is nothing to keep. Egoic interests have no value.

Our ego prevents us to dissolve into universe. Ego is rooted in the fear of death, that's the last stone.

The goal is not to still keeping... There is no goal. Let yourself to turn into need for truth. There is no goal, because goal is indeed escaping.
Keep instead the intense need for truth and don't go anywhere. 

[abrakamowse]

On 9/12/2016 at 11:35 PM, Lior said:

Isn't reducing ego means more vulnerability ?
Ego seems to be evolutionary mechanism to protect us. Will we survive without it ?
Who will keep our interests ? 
What will prevent us from fall apart and dissolve in the universe ?

If reducing the ego but still keeping it is the goal, What is the amount of ego we need and how we measure it ? 

It's not eliminating or reducing the ego, is understanding what it is and reacting in the correct way, not being controlled by the ego. When you are unconscious you think you have control over your ego, but that's not real. The ego is controlling you by making you "think" that you are the body, the mind, whatever... What we have to do is explained well in Zen teachings, here I copy something from the book "Instant Zen"

" One of the peculiarities of Zen Buddhism is the idea that awakening can take place instantaneously. Zen training, from this point o f view, does not mean learning doctrines, rituals, and postures, but preparing the (ego) mind to accept this awakening and integrate it constructively with daily life in the world."

So, the idea is to get awakened so the mind accepts that and the ego-mind integrate it to the new consciousness. The ego doesn't disappear, it is understood from a wider and wiser  perspective.

[kurt]

The ego is a tricky thing. It's best not to get rid of it, but to educate it. The fact is, you can only become enlightened if you do have an ego, so the idea is to neutralise it's suffering by giving it non dual understanding.

The ego is the True Self under the spell of illusion (seeing itself as an object entity that is driven by desire and fears that it believes will bring it happiness while claiming possession of phenomena - so as far as interests go these are very poor interests compared to the natural and confident True Self's interests). 

So the ego is not the real problem, the illusion it is under is the problem. Working on removing the ignorance is all that is needed.