Good Exposé Of Jordan Peterson

[PurpleTree]

18 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@PurpleTree he is Jewish 

nope 

why do you think so?

also i really don't care if he was

[Yog]

4 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Isn't he Jewish?

Norwegian. His grand-grandpa made a boat and sailed all the way from Norway to New York with a dozen more people.

Quite a feat that one These people were nuts.

[Danioover9000]

@PurpleTree @Heart of Space @Yog

 

On 12/4/2020 at 7:32 AM, Yog said:

This guy is working so hard to misunderstand him.

Out of all the valid things to criticize about JP, people just get stuck in their projections and miss the mark.

If I see you totally and constantly miss the target, than I might get the impression that there is no target at all and that you are shooting at empty air. Or at best just stop caring about the target.

Why take the time to aim, why do precision shooting, when you can just mindlessly shoot. This does not make a bad target, it makes a bad archer.

This makes some of JPs "wrong" positions, many of which actually have to be criticized, feel even more valid in the eyes of people, just because the archer is so bad.

   I do think it's really bad if some of the points criticized are mainly name calling a large population, as generalization. If I'm arguing for dating, and my assertion is that men suffer from social anxiety and are victimized more so than women, I don't call all dating women sluts and build my justifications from that assumption. If I'm debating for the right, and one of my points is me claiming all leftists are communists and snow flakes, how do I build explanations from that, and what would the rebuttal be? If I'm arguing from the left, am I charitable, and in good faith, when one of my points is claiming all the right as fascists and dinosaurs?

   It's much clearer to have more discussions than to debate, because at least in discussions the chances are lower for it to become heated and ugly.

[Leo Gura]

In fairness to JP, this is the best interview of him I've seen, presenting him in good light:

JP does have some sophisticated and important ideas. His psychological insights are usually valid.

It's mostly his anti-Green politics that are the problem.

[thibault]

@Leo Gura What do you think of Ken Wilber's view that JBP is an integral thinker with some existential anger problems ? I mean the man is clearly paying the price for making a stand on an orange-based value (free speech) that he felt was being violated too soon or too harshly. Being raised stage green, I needed that. I didn't have free speech in my family, in my school, or with my friends. When I got to college, the first day in dorms, I was told the only way to interact with a girl was to ask for verbal consent at every step. To a horny virgin teenager, when you've been sold the idea that college is an orgy, that is the worst thing to hear 

Just because he has a bit of an ego and regresses to blue instead of providing a constructive route to green, I can't fault the guy because I binged him when I was in university drowning in the extreme green narrative and feeling like a piece of shit for falling short of that ideal. I'm only now owning up to the stage green values I was conditioned for because he catalyzed my development much in the same way you have. Although I agree he is wrong on his politics, and I agree that he has mostly become a politician, I do think he has played his role and I just wish he would retire ! Poor guy needs a break.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, thibault said:

Ken Wilber's view that JBP is an integral thinker with some existential anger problems

It's more than some anger problems. He's developed a giant Green shadow.

Quote

I just wish he would retire !

That's probably the worst thing you could say to him.

Without his career his whole life would probably collapse.

[Forestluv]

I like how he describes his process of writing at 17min. He spent 3 hours a day for 15 years writing one of his books and describes his arduous process.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Forestluv said:

He spent 3 hours a day for 15 years writing one of his books

On the one hand it's admirable.

On the other hand, to spend that much time developing a theory which is fundamentally false is a tragedy. And really that is his biggest problem: he is lost in his thinking mind. If I did what he did, I would go fucking insane. It would be very mentally unhealthy.

[thibault]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's more than some anger problems. He's developed a giant Green shadow.

I'd never seen it this way. But I guess that means he is an excellent case study for budding mystics who will study him and just go : what's that huge fucking shadow he's got there, I better integrate that shit  Also, what does a stage Yellow shadow look like, anything to look out for ?

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's probably the worst thing you could say to him.

Without his career his whole life would probably collapse.

Yep, but what if he got hooked on benzos and his family started telling him "Chill out Jordan, we got a big house and a bunch of money we're good, the cultural marxists can wait another year". Repeat that cycle a couple times and he might just be able to convince himself that he needs to retire based on his stage blue family values. I would pay to watch that movie.

Edited December 7, 2020 by thibault

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, thibault said:

he might just be able to convince himself that he needs to retire

Hahaha...

A guy as anal as him? Not a chance.

[Forestluv]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

On the other hand, to spend that much time developing a theory which is fundamentally false is a tragedy. And really that is his biggest problem: he is lost in his thinking mind. If I did what he did, I would go fucking insane. It would be very mentally unhealthy.

I hadn’t thought of it like that. 

Ironically, he describes the lengthy process as “how to write a rock solid argument”. And he wrote a book on how to write solid arguments.  . . In a way, he wrote an instructional manual how to stay lost in one’s thinking mind through writing. 

[Preety_India]

If you told Jordan Peterson to retire, he might once again go into hiding out of depression. 

 

[thibault]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Hahaha...

A guy as anal as him? Not a chance.

Damn that sucks, I propose this metaphorical gravestone for him in that case. Let us grieve this fellow meaning-warrior and move on from this tragedy.

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, thibault said:

Damn that sucks, I propose this metaphorical gravestone for him in that case. Let us grieve this fellow meaning-warrior and move on from this tragedy.

Jordan Peterson is an interesting character. He is more drama and theater than substance. Of course his psychological material is well worked out and a good read, I'd say a goldmine of information, his lectures as well, yet his political opinions are quite banal and myopic for a man so monumentally immersed in psychology and human behavior. 

 

[thibault]

5 hours ago, North Sea said:

What is this concept of "shadow"? Really don't understand this concept, do you mean a part of him is Green but he denies this part of him by fighting stage Green people?

I'm not an expert on the subject but from my understanding it is exactly as you described. So stage green values are something like "Human lives and human relations above all" which is an evolution from orange of "Success above all". He is a psychiatrist and does self help material which would imply that he values human lives and human relations, his entire business hinges on the fact that he projects a strong stage green image implicitly, it's almost taken for granted that he "cares about you" from his career choices like being a psychiatrist and doing self-help. However the conscious message he spreads is essentially "it's fine if you don't care about others, you have the right do so". Basically his success comes from a part of himself that cares about every human life, even BLM and trans activists, but he doesn't integrate that part of himself to take conscious control of it and promotes a political message based on the exclusion of those people and justifies it to himself through the stage orange values of "My content and message is successful so it must be valuable, the market is king".

[Carl-Richard]

17 minutes ago, thibault said:

So stage green values are something like "Human lives and human relations above all" which is an evolution from orange of "Success above all". He is a psychiatrist and does self help material which would imply that he values human lives and human relations

I would hesitate to derive conclusions based on a single sentence summary. For example, Stage Blue charities also fall under that description. Try reading through the values mentioned in this topic:

 

 

[Leo Gura]

A shadow is any aspect of yourself/Universe which you demonize, judge, and hate because you think it is not your self.

For example, if you hate Nazis, you are not conscious that you are actually hating your own self.

Well, JP has done that with stage Green. He is waging a war on himself without realizing it. And it kills him inside.

[Zak]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A shadow is any aspect of yourself/Universe which you demonize, judge, and hate because you think it is not your self.

For example, if you hate Nazis, you are not conscious that you are actually hating your own self.

Interesting.

Just found this video in my feed about shadow work which I thought would be nice to share here for a better understanding of how shadow works.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Zak
forgot to link the video. damn

[Leo Gura]

It's very simple: anything you don't like in the Universe and that you think isn't you, is your shadow.

[Zak]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's very simple: anything you don't like in the Universe and that you think isn't you, is your shadow.

 How would you differentiate shadow from ego?

Quote