Good Exposé Of Jordan Peterson

[SonataAllegro]

@Leo Gura having grown up a die hard leftie, then getting indoctrinated by JP in college, then watching you and seeing through all his bullshit, I now approach his lectures much more critically. He has the intellect of stage yellow with the moral compass of stage blue. This makes it so easy for blue/orange people to use his ideas as confirmation bias for their own worldview. The psychological topics he discusses in his lectures can be either a much-needed eye opener to the limits of ideology, bringing you closer to yellow, or they can be made into an ideology, bringing you down to blue. Having swung back and forth several times on JP, I think I can say now that I've eaten the grapes and spit out the seeds, and watching his lectures helps to integrate my blue shadow in a healthy way while remaining a leftie.

[fortifyacacia3]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Are you kidding??

He uses it all the time.

@Leo Gura No, I'm nearly positive he always uses Postmodernism as a stand in term. 

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, fortifyacacia3 said:

@Leo Gura No, I'm nearly positive he always uses Postmodernism as a stand in term. 

Well, you're wrong.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, SonataAllegro said:

He has the intellect of stage yellow

Stage Orange intellect can be very advanced in stage Orange. For example, scientists like Richard Dawkins can go into highly complex, detailed  intellectual models. In Dawkin’s case intellectual models of genetics and evolution. To an untrained eye, it may appear as yellow since it seems so complex and detailed. Yet it is still stage Orange. If you asked Dawkin’s to integrate this physical model with immaterial models of collective entanglement within epigenetics - his head would explode.

Imo, JP has some flashes of yellow yet contextualized it in Orange. His extremely strong resistance to green prevents development and embodimentt of yellow. For example, deepening levels of relativism is needed to pass through green into yellow and JP has intense resistance against relativism. He wants to analyze it from an Orange level and protect his blue foundation. 

[Danioover9000]

   Can someone link the times Jordan Peterson used the term 'Cultural Marxism' or 'Cultural Marxist'  rather than 'Postmodern-Neo-Marxists', instead of claiming each other as incorrect? My linking isn't working at the moment. Thanks. 

[ravlondon]

I used to come up with same brilliant ideas as Jordan Peterson does when I used to smoke weed and sit high in my bathtub

[Forestluv]

Word substitution is a common technique to re-package old conservative views and grievances. As their arguments fail and become outdated, some of the old terms become stale and toxic. So they create new terms for the same concepts or they co-op progressive terms to obscure. This gives the illusion of freshness for a new generation of minds and obscures progressive ideas. 

[Hello from Russia]

2 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Stage Orange intellect can be very advanced in stage Orange. For example, scientists like Richard Dawkins can go into highly complex, detailed  intellectual models. In Dawkin’s case intellectual models of genetics and evolution. To an untrained eye, it may appear as yellow since it seems so complex and detailed. Yet it is still stage Orange. If you asked Dawkin’s to integrate this physical model with immaterial models of collective entanglement within epigenetics - his head would explode.

Imo, JP has some flashes of yellow yet contextualized it in Orange. His extremely strong resistance to green prevents development and embodimentt of yellow. For example, deepening levels of relativism is needed to pass through green into yellow and JP has intense resistance against relativism. He wants to analyze it from an Orange level and protect his blue foundation. 

@Forestluv Interesting insight. I actually think I get tricked by "sciency" books a lot. A lot of scientist-authors sounds very yellow in the written word: very unbiased, unpartial view, trying to integrate things, find something new, finding interconnections, etc, very pleasureful to read. And I'm not even sure if these were just some high quality science books or it's just something about science itself that is yellow in its nature. Like science done right resembles yellow thinking. Or you could even say that the founding idea of science is very yellow, the spirit of science is yellow, yet many mediocre scientists can't keep it up (or keep up only partially)

I've also read many dogmatic books where science guys were clearly just biased into some one or a few directions, especially with soft sciences like history, sociology and polytology

Edited December 4, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

But as a consequence, Jordan is preventing himself from unleashing and totally accept his feminine part. It explains his political view, and his absence of real spiritual gift.

In observing structure of mind, I find blocks very interesting. When one works through their own block, it becomes obvious and simple. 

I imagine hiking and encountering a gate. It’s not really a “block” until we recognize it as a block. And it can be so simple to just pass through the gate. Yet it can also be highly complex. The gate may have a lock, the gate may be deeply rooted in the earth. It may seem tho high to climb. And then all sorts of stories about one’s past history with gates, what could be on the other side, anxiety. From the perspective of the gate-resistor their movie is their movie. Yet from another perspective it’s like “Dude, it’s just a gate. Let’s cross it and continue to explore”. 

When I see someone like JP, it’s like seeing someone sitting on the trail beside a gate ruminating in all their stories and trying to get confirmation from others. 

[Heart of Space]

2 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Stage Orange intellect can be very advanced in stage Orange. For example, scientists like Richard Dawkins can go into highly complex, detailed  intellectual models. In Dawkin’s case intellectual models of genetics and evolution. To an untrained eye, it may appear as yellow since it seems so complex and detailed. Yet it is still stage Orange. If you asked Dawkin’s to integrate this physical model with immaterial models of collective entanglement within epigenetics - his head would explode.

I'm curious how familiar you are with Dawkins to say that.  I've read a lot of his stuff and anything relating to science and that has hard data he's a savant in terms of his analysis.  Not to mention his politics are extremely green, but he doesn't get caught up in a lot of the SJW toxic green stuff at all.  He's definitely dogmatic about science and rationalism, but there's a lot about orange that doesn't fit his character in the slightest.  

Edited December 4, 2020 by Heart of Space

[Forestluv]

50 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

I'm curious how familiar you are with Dawkins to say that.  I've read a lot of his stuff and anything relating to science and that has hard data he's a savant in terms of his analysis.  Not to mention his politics are extremely green, but he doesn't get caught up in a lot of the SJW toxic green stuff at all.  He's definitely dogmatic about science and rationalism, but there's a lot about orange that doesn't fit his character in the slightest.  

I haven’t followed Dawkins for years. He may have evolved to green on the social line of development. Yet I haven’t seen anything to suggest so.

I’m referring more to his foundation of Orange materialism, logic and rationality. He can create very sophisticated, detailed, complex models within that realm - such as with genetics and evolution. That’s great and has value in some contexts. Yet Dawkins and Deepak Chopra will not be on the same wavelength. Dawkins would see Deepak as woo woo pseudo science. That’s not “wrong”, there are just in two different movies. Dawkins movie is much more zoomed in and contacted, Deepak’s movie is much more zoomed out and expansive. Each has value and each has problems.

[Heart of Space]

11 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I haven’t followed Dawkins for years. He may have evolved to green on the social line of development. I haven’t seen anything to suggest so.

I’m referring more to his foundation of Orange materialism, logic and rationality. He can create very sophisticated, detailed, complex models within that realm - such as genetics and evolution. That’s great and has value in some contexts. Yet Dawkins and Deepak Chopra will not be on the same wavelength. Dawkins would see Deepak as woo woo pseudo science. That’s not “wrong”, there are just in two different movies. Dawkins movie is much more zoomed in and contacted, Deepak’s movie is much more zoomed out and expansive. Each has value and each has problems.

You don't think Deepak's use of certain scientific terms and vague use of language is misleading in some way?  Honestly, Richard could be more open minded in those realms, but Deepak hasn't done himself any favors.

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

You don't think Deepak's use of certain scientific terms and vague use of language is misleading in some way?  Honestly, Richard could be more open minded in those realms, but Deepak hasn't done himself any favors.

I see each of their views as having both value and problems. Zooming in and zooming out can each have value, yet using the wrong resolution for a given situation can be lead to incorrect conclusions. 

It’s like different resolution of maps - each map resolution has both value and traps. If someone only has a map of Detroit and are making conclusions about U.S. - Central American relations, that is problematic. Yet if someone is making conclusions about traffic in Detroit based on maps of the North American continent, that is also problematic.

Most minds tend to get contracted and stuck within a small map. That is why nearly every model of cognitive development has meta cognition at a higher stage. Minds contracted within small maps cannot go metacog and see the bigger map. Minds with big map awareness, can zoom into small maps, yet sometimes they can do it very well - yet they can do it to some extent.

[Arcangelo]

Mr Jordan Peterson is a good self development teacher that has helped thousands of guys including myself. I am at stage orange I hate blue but I dig green because I am green also. I am aware that I hate blue and I try to work on that. That makes me like 2% yellow I think.

Clean up your room!

After that enjoy this stage orange rap!

 

 

Arc

[Forestluv]

 

[Claymoree]

You can find things you don't like in anyone, nothing new. show me one person without flaws you can't pick on. 

Seriously  why he gets so much hate? Is it just because he does not bow down to left wing extremists? 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Claymoree

[No Self]

14 hours ago, Claymoree said:

Seriously  why he gets so much hate? Is it just because he does not bow down to left wing extremists? 

Maybe things have changed since I used to watch some of his videos, but I found there to be some excellent educational content and insights into psychology. But he seemed to become quite arrogant and instead of sharing a perspective on his area of specialty, started pushing a whole philosophy rooted in fundamentalist Christianity. It's necessary to be conscious not to turn him into a cult of personality.

On another topic, leftists arguing in favour of censoring all opinions except their own (while nonetheless stupidly making a lot of noise promoting their opponents via the Streisand effect) are a disgrace to politics. It would be so easy for the majority of society to get behind sensible progressive politics if it weren't for this insanity.

[Forestluv]

17 hours ago, Claymoree said:

You can find things you don't like in anyone, nothing new. show me one person without flaws you can't pick on. 

Seriously  why he gets so much hate? Is it just because he does not bow down to left wing extremists? 

JP can be sneaky and manipulate. Those that can see his tactics find it annoying because he is sowing toxic beliefs and resistance to progress. If he was straight-up about it, it would be different. He can be sneaky and manipulate vulnerable people that don’t realize they are being manipulated. A mind needs to be at a relatively advanced developmental level to be aware of his game.

Yet it’s relative. On an SD scale, we are talking a mixed bag of blue/orange. It’s not like he’s a red level mobster organizing terrorists groups. 

[Leo Gura]

As annoying as JP is, he should be allowed publish his book. Just cause an employee does not like JP's ideas does not mean they get to cancel his book.

It's not like JP is Hitler. His political ideas are pretty much standard conservative dogma.

[Godhead]

How to be a public intellectual:

1. Have the moral values of the average joe.

2. Present those moral values in a smart-sounding way.