Good Exposé Of Jordan Peterson

[PurpleTree]

i also think it's boring and off putting when centrists or mostly right wingers or die hard free market capitalists call people on the left "marxists" and "communists" etc. whatever

maybe my ignorance for history is also to blame for this  

 

also i come from a left environment so i expect more from the left and because of that i tend to be a bit harder on them

maybe they should call someone mussolini etc. instead of hitler for a change

[Preety_India]

14 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

i also think it's boring and off putting when centrists or mostly right wingers or die hard free market capitalists call people on the left "marxists" and "communists" etc. whatever

maybe my ignorance for history is also to blame for this  

 

also i come from a left environment so i expect more from the left and because of that i tend to be a bit harder on them

maybe they should call someone mussolini etc. instead of hitler for a change

Why does it matter if someone is called a nazi? 

 

[Peter-Andre]

38 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The whole thing that the left calls everyone a nazi is so over the top. 

Well don't spread nazi type ideas if you don't want to be called one. 

People say bigoted things but when the Left lashes back with a big roar, they instantly begin to play victim. 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. 

@Preety_India I agree. I think the problem is that some people's views are so far on the right that anyone left of a moderate right-winger is seen as being on the far-left. They think that their views are just moderately right-wing, whereas in reality, they are actually quite a bit farther than that, and when people call them out on it, they get surprised. They have a warped perspective.

[Preety_India]

@Peter-Andre agree

[PurpleTree]

46 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Why does it matter if someone is called a nazi? 

 

it just bores me

 

it's not inherently "wrong" nothing is, it's a preference and i for example just find it very off putting and i suppose many others too.

a nazi is someone from the nsdap

Edited December 1, 2020 by PurpleTree

[Heart of Space]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Heart of Space "Cultural Marxism" is an anti-semetic conspiracy theory. Wikipedia it and learn its history.

That's all Hasan was saying. He was not saying JP is a Nazi, just that he fear-mongers with this outdated Red Scare propaganda.

I read the wiki just now.  It was interesting, but I still believe that if you are going to criticize the man, or a person on general do it on the merit if what that person says or does.  I also believe that Vaush, Hasan, and others do make that connection for the purpose of vaguely connecting them to horrific ideologies of the past.  To me that's not an argument on good faith, at least when they are doing it.  It's also the last way you're going to convince anyone from the other side. 

You can connect a lot of more traditional ideologies with horrific moments in history.  A lot of ideologies have baggage, let's not unload that on a person unless they truly deserve it.  That's what I'm trying to say.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Heart of Space

[Lyubov]

I could smell JP's BS the first time I listened to him speak a few years back. He would talk in circles about something or another and I had listened to enough self help to know when someone is secretly taking a piss in the swimming pool. He would never flat out say what he was alluding to and that always sends off alarm bells for me when someone speaks like this. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Lyubov

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

I read the wiki just now.  It was interesting, but I still believe that if you are going to criticize the man, or a person on general do it on the merit if what that person says or does.  I also believe that Vaush, Hasan, and others do make that connection for the purpose of vaguely connecting them to horrific ideologies of the past.  To me that's not an argument on good faith, at least when they are doing it.  It's also the last way you're going to convince anyone from the other side.

Well, consider it poetic justice for JP constantly conflating stage Green people with Soviet and Maoist Communists.

If stage Green college feminists and trans kids are Maoist Communists, then Jordan Peterson is a Nazi

[Heart of Space]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, consider it poetic justice for JP constantly conflating stage Green people Soviet and Maoist Communists.

If stage Green college feminists and trans kids are Maoist Communists, then Jordan Peterson is a Nazi

Aw damn lol, you got me there.  

[Danioover9000]

@Heart of Space @PurpleTree

21 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

Man, I got to the part where Hasan makes some vague connection to JP's beliefs and the Nazi ideology and I had to stop watching.  Nothing has made me cringe harder than when Vaush, or another leftist makes some vague connection from Nazism to american right wing ideology outside of actual white nationalists or some other group.  

He makes some good points up until then.  But then he starts talking about how JP is using a dog whistle, which is his way of basically saying that JP is secretly a Nazi espousing Nazi beliefs, but doing it in just enough of a vague way it doesn't look too suspicious.  I've heard Vaush use the same terminology against other right wing people.  Not everyone who's right wing is a death cultist racist nazi.  I'm a leftist generally speaking, but I'm getting sick of hearing this criticism.   

Your point is definitely valid.  I have a bit of a soft spot for JP.   

   I've watched the video, and to some extent I do agree that calling half the population 'Nazis' is a bit too much. If someone said to me that all men are rapists and sexist pigs, I'd cringe, but I'd agree to some extent because I've used a similar name calling generalization of most women as evil, because in the distant past I've suffered from bullying by some boys and girls, and the female bullying was more traumatic than the male bullying. However, I'm putting in the introspection and inner work because this generalization, and other distorted statements I've made about people and reality are not helping me, and in this specific example, is another obstacle to when I've been dating among many other walls.

   That said, the importance of Jordan Peterson is relative to what segment of the population actually needs his advice or not needs his advice, which is also why he's still valuable for some and not valuable for others. Also, it's great that Hasan was able to pick apart Jordan's ability to slip his political bias under his value he offers, which is psychological lectures, not as deeply analytical as Destiny's analytical ability, but it's okay. Probably my main complaint with Hasan is on how he presented the information.

[Lyubov]

so it looks like JP is doubling down on his ideology? I just realized this is for his new book that is coming out (lol). 

[Lindsay]

His lectures were thought provoking. I cherry picked what I liked. And appreciated his other views. Actually he helped me ease my disgust for the right wing conservatives. I thought he was a decent bridge for me to right wing conservatives. Maybe because I ground myself here. When I’m confused about something I check in with this forum. And read the answers. Also I went through a holy phase, and atheist phase, and an idk phase. His Maps of Meaning inspired me to appreciate religion and symbolism. Because I rejected everything religious between the ages 14-28 years old. I also latched on to Yuval Noah Harari which also helped. Maybe I am indoctrinated. But also less hateful and more understanding. 

[Carl-Richard]

Man if only Hasan had a silky smooth voice like Vaush and didn't speaking in this whining tone 

[Carl-Richard]

13 hours ago, Lyubov said:

so it looks like JP is doubling down on his ideology? I just realized this is for his new book that is coming out (lol). 

His new book (atleast conceptually speaking) is supposed to be more feminine/yin/chaos-oriented to serve as a balancing comment on the previous book and the pathologies of too much order. Maybe that will be an oppurtunity for him to show more of his yellow side (or maybe he'll just reverse uno-card and double down).

Edited December 3, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Heart of Space]

10 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Man if only Hasan had a silky smooth voice like Vaush and didn't speaking in this whining tone 

Lol, I actually like that about him.  It makes him sound funny in an entertaining way.  I feel like Vaush is kind of forcing his voice to sound like a radio announcer.  ?

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Heart of Space said:

Lol, I actually like that about him.  It makes him sound funny in an entertaining way.  I feel like Vaush is kind of forcing his voice to sound like a radio announcer.  ?

He is on the spectrum though which can make you come off as overly formal at times.

[Heart of Space]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

He is on the spectrum though which can make you come off as overly formal at times.

Yea I feel that.  I don't mean to caste judgement, he is an entertaining speaker.  Just my silly preference.

[fortifyacacia3]

@Leo Gura Peterson hasn't used the term "Cultural Marxism", from what I've seen articles and video titles do. He says "Postmodern Neo-Marxism." Not sure how meaningful the difference is though & not a fan of defending him lol.

[Yog]

This guy is working so hard to misunderstand him.

Out of all the valid things to criticize about JP, people just get stuck in their projections and miss the mark.

If I see you totally and constantly miss the target, than I might get the impression that there is no target at all and that you are shooting at empty air. Or at best just stop caring about the target.

Why take the time to aim, why do precision shooting, when you can just mindlessly shoot. This does not make a bad target, it makes a bad archer.

This makes some of JPs "wrong" positions, many of which actually have to be criticized, feel even more valid in the eyes of people, just because the archer is so bad.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Yog
archer added.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, fortifyacacia3 said:

Peterson hasn't used the term "Cultural Marxism",

Are you kidding??

He uses it all the time.