Levels of Consciousness

[Haumea2018]

Would people be happier if we called them degrees or levels of illusion instead of levels of consciousness?  They are real, consistent, universal stable experiences of self, which vary as far as unconscious frame of "I" vs. "other" (until that duality is erased completely.)  You can call it whatever you want: the experiences are stable and consistent within a "level."

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Haumea2018

[Gesundheit]

Ironically enough, it has always seemed that Leo is materialism's biggest "hater", and yet whenever he's asked a question about consciousness, his views turn out to be full of materialism.

Levels, degrees, whatever... What is all that but quantifying consciousness? You know who loves to quantify reality? Materialists.

[Haumea2018]

@Gesundheit Of course, the enlightenment/non-enlightenment binary are two levels.  So to be fully consistent, let's delete this forum, right? There's nothing that can be said about any of it, so why are we still talking? 

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

Would people be happier if we called them degrees or levels of illusion instead of levels of consciousness?

They are degrees of consciousness. That's precisely what it is. There's no need to play semantic games.

8 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Ironically enough, it has always seemed that Leo is materialism's biggest "hater", and yet whenever he's asked a question about consciousness, his views turn out to be full of materialism.

Levels, degrees, whatever... What is all that but quantifying consciousness? You know who loves to quantify reality? Materialists.

Degrees of consciousness are not quantifying consciousness, they are qualifying consciousness.

Consciousness has the QUALITY of being more or less conscious of itself. You cannot ever put a number on this quality. But the qualitative differences are there.

[Thought Art]

@Seraphim He doesn't know what he is saying. It's just ego bla bla 

[Haumea2018]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are degrees of consciousness. That's precisely what it is. There's no need to play semantic games.

Hey, personally I don't care either way.  I'm just curious if there would be some new objection to calling them something else.

[Gesundheit]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Degrees of consciousness are not quantifying consciousness, they are qualifying consciousness.

Consciousness has the QUALITY of being more or less conscious of itself. You cannot ever put a number on this quality. But the qualitative differences are there.

Ahhh, okay! I want to get technical here with you. Can you please elaborate on quality? Because to me, it seems quality is a subjective thing. So how do we rate higher states in terms of quality? What if a lower state is misleading that it makes one think that it's a higher state? How would we know?

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Ahhh, okay! I want to get technical here with you. Can you please elaborate on quality? Because to me, it seems quality is a subjective thing. So how do we rate higher states in terms of quality?

There is no how. You become conscious of qualities or you don't.

4 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

What if a lower state is misleading that it makes one think that it's a higher state? How would we know?

How do you know anything? CONSCIOUSNESS!

[Bojan V]

@Dodo I've read a whole bible and it's all nonsense.

[Gesundheit]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How do you know anything? CONSCIOUSNESS!

I won't take that for an answer.

How I know things is simply by comparison/contrast. Without contrast, I wouldn't know anything. So knowing is dualistic.

Now the question is: Is the duality between different states of consciousness true? Or does it ultimately collapse?

Edited December 2, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Dodo]

5 hours ago, Bojan V said:

@Dodo I've read a whole bible and it's all nonsense.

You don't need to read the whole thing, just the things Spirit wants you to see and then you understand. You don't know how to read it yet, before you access spirit level.

It's one thing being a scholar, and another thing to actually go deeper in the text through direct experience and use it as a map and guide.

Any tool is bad if you don't learn how to use it, heads up bro

Edited December 2, 2020 by Dodo

[Rilles]

5 hours ago, Bojan V said:

@Dodo I've read a whole bible and it's all nonsense.

Sure you have.

[Conscious life]

@Leo Gura

On 12/1/2020 at 4:54 AM, Leo Gura said:

You have no clue how conscious you can be. What you got now is like the consciousness of an ant.

my Deepest desire is to see myself be conscious hundred times than I am now. 

 

[Conscious life]

@Gesundheit

7 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

What if a lower state is misleading that it makes one think that it's a higher state? How would we know?

that is why truth is difficult to know it. the devil consciousness sees god as devil and the God consciousness sees the devil as God. there is no point this duality will meet. 

[LfcCharlie4]

2 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

I won't take that for an answer.

How I know things is simply by comparison/contrast. Without contrast, I wouldn't know anything. So knowing is dualistic.

Now the question is: Is the duality between different states of consciousness true? Or does it ultimately collapse?

 

Here's one metric the go by- The Absolute sense of Happiness & Peace you feel. 

By happiness I don't mean some kind of elation or high, like taking drugs. 

But, simply happy, fulfilled, at peace. 

 

Another big 'marker' is your sense of other, if you believe that another exists in any shape or form, then you have work to do

 

In regards to your question- Knowing on a relative level is dualistic- hot / cold etc, but True knowing of Consciousness is beyond duality. It's This. 

The LOC & other models simply help identify how conscious someone is of themselves, quite literally. Everyone is that, but 99.9% of people have no idea, and believe themselves to be a non-existent separate self.

[Guest SirVladimir]

1 hour ago, Conscious life said:

@Leo Gura

my Deepest desire is to see myself be conscious hundred times than I am now.

Then let it go, for this desire is happening within this current state. In fact, it is effectively anchoring you like a ship. 

[Adamq8]

I dont see anything wrong in levels of conciousness, it clearly shows that we can have certain degrees of different states, and also shows that when "you" think that you reached to end you still have more to transcend.

I like David hawkins books.

[UnbornTao]

On 12/1/2020 at 9:55 AM, Dodo said:

@Arzola ajdhdudhwjdjh but does this mean my level is not over 9000 as jajaji told me...

Your consciousness is at Bernie Sanders-level. Impossible to go deeper. 

 

@Leo Gura 

Couldn’t it be Guranian bullshit?

You seem to be conflating awareness/experience with consciousness, so any altered state will be considered an increase in consciousness, similar to getting high or altering perception thorough extreme fasting or breathwork. Within the relative domain, degrees can certainly be made. When conscious of your nature though, where can the levels be found? Aren't they constructed by the mind post-insight?

How could first graders evaluate postgrads’ knowledge (consciousness)?

Ramana and the rest frankly didn’t emphasize degrees.

Does a shallower degree make it less true?

Edited November 7, 2022 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

@LfcCharlie4 Useful perhaps, but dispensable. They're ultimately irrelevant and not needed. Again, they can be valuable, though.

The most conscious individuals, however, don’t make these lists. I don't think that's merely a coincidence.

Edited November 7, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Arzola said:

Couldn’t it be otherwise? Guranian bullshit?

Anything could. Find out for yourself.

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Since you conflate awareness/experience with consciousness...

Lol

Stop right there.

EVERYTHING is consciousness. The end.

If you distinguish anything from consciousness, you've failed.

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When conscious of your true nature, where are the levels in your experience? Doesn’t the mind create them after the insights?

No, degrees of consciousness are actually prior to and more fundamental than insight.

You are presently in some state of consciousness. This state has a certain qualitative degree of consciousness. As this degree is increased you will recognize more and more of yourself as God, until your consciousness reaches a total singularity, something akin to what The Big Bang was before it exploded.

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How could first graders evaluate postgrads’ knowledge (consciousness)? Ramana and the rest frankly didn’t emphasize degrees.

I agree. The problem for you is how do you know who's the first grader and who's the postgrad?

Why do you assume Ramana was at the highest degree of consciousness? See? You just believe that like a fool because some humans fawn over him.

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Does a “shallower” degree make it less true?

It makes one's understanding of reality incorrect.

Being stupid is not any less true than being smart. But it is no virtue to be stupid.