Being "Too Nice" in Dating

[Hello from Russia]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Also if a man didn't say that to her but acted in a way where he is putting her down or treating her like "not important", why should she care to be in a relationship with him. She might as well find a guy who actually treats her like a queen and puts her on a pedestal. 

Some men are so clueless as to what's going on in a woman's head. Then they go read books to learn it yet those books contain wrong information. 

Yeah, totally. And too many resources teach this unholistic approach to dating as a pure manipulation game. With all this ghosting, ignoring, treating people like shit on purpose, being way too edgy than you need. And then they wonder why the actual long term relationship sucks, not these 1-3 month hangouts. I'd say it is because they build it on a shit foundation to begin with. 

All of this pickup stuff works wonders for 1-3 month flakes, though, but not so much for the long term. Long term is a whole separate domain and you'll actually get hurt if you transfer way too many concepts from short term seduction (But some are very nice and transferable - like being a man who knows his shit, for example, and many others)

[Preety_India]

Just now, Hello from Russia said:

Yeah, totally. And too many resources teach this unholistic approach to dating as a pure manipulation game. With all this ghosting, ignoring, treating people like shit on purpose, being way too edgy than you need. And then they wonder why the actual long term relationship sucks, not these 1-3 month hangouts. I'd say it is because they build it on a shit foundation to begin with. 

All of this pickup stuff works wonders for 1-3 month flakes, though, but not so much for the long term. Long term is a whole separate domain and you'll actually get hurt if you transfer way too many concepts from short term seduction (But some are very nice and transferable - like being a man who knows his shit, for example, and many others)

True. You're absolutely right. 

All this edgy nonsense is such spiritual de-evolution.

 

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

All of this pickup stuff works wonders for 1-3 month

Pickup is designed to teach you ATTRACTION, not relationship advice.

It works exactly as promised when you understand its proper context.

[Bando]

@knakoo Great advice, I remember reading that reddit post a while back, its funny to know the the person who created it is on this forum

The goal every guy should have in dating is to just "be" and let attraction come naturally without the need of mind games, negging, pedasltes, worrying about being high value ect, you can just let things happen naturally. But this is only after you learn how to attract women (I suggest pick up), integrate it into your own personality and then transcend it altogether.

If you go about dating the right way you should come full circle, I started off as a "nice guy" and worked hard to break that pattern, got deep into pick up and learning all these "tactics" Leo often talks about, (they do work btw) and got great results and then started doing intense emotional healing and spirituality work. Honestly I even feel more of a "nice guy" then when I started because I know its authentic and not some cover to gain approval. Theres is no "talk to her like you're a king" or "look for something to neg on" but just being natural which makes dating feel sooo much better.

Don't aim to just get chicks, but also aim to clean up and make the process of getting chicks more conscious and non-manipulative, make it enjoyable for everyone
 

[ColeMC01]

@Leo Gura That can work great in some countries/age groups but most girls my age where i live will not accept that. If they are dating you they will be super hurt if you date other girls even if the relationship talk has not happened yet. They will see you as a fuckboy that is not loyal.

Would you recommend to leave it a secret and if asked to lie about it? Imagine if the girl you re seeing will get super upset and turned off if you tell her than i am dating and fucking other girls since we did not have the relationship talk yet.

 

[Hello from Russia]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Pickup is designed to teach you ATTRACTION, not relationship advice.

It works exactly as promised when you understand its proper context.

Yeah, totally. I actually respect pickup a lot and find it very useful/good skill to learn. I feel it can become way more conscious tho, there is definitely room for a conscious pickup or conscious dating niche and it becoming more popular rather than mainstream version of pickup

Edited December 1, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

For me personally being SUPER NICE became sort of my style, I am OVERLY NICE and I'd say I am much more nicer than most guys (maybe 99%).

But being nice of that caliber means you almost drop any judgement and accept the person as he is and you're welcoming him in whatever way he is. It's very different form of nice as what we call typical "nice guys" have. They are not actually nice, they are hypocrites and women sense that and don't trust them (as they should).

Be so nice women can't ignore you, ultimate form of nice, it's super contagious. Not the meak form of nice, but powerful and empowering one.

Completely agree. Totally drop the notion of not wanting to appear overly nice/kind. Hell, you can even try going overboard with it, IF it feels good to you. Having a style of overt, easily recognizable relentless kindness can certainly work, as long as it's done for its own sake; isn't being used in a shallow attempt to get what you want from people, or cover up insecurities, etc.

[Hello from Russia]

From my insights, the main reason why women don't feel attracted to  these "nice guys" because such guys tend to be sheep, in a sense. Women just subconsciously don't trust these guys to be able to generate a good amount of resources and "goodies" for you and your future family. Why bother if that will be the case? Totally relatable women's POV, imo.
At the other hand you can be an "alpha" leader and also be fairly nice to everybody, things will be much smoother and it is not like these things are contradictory to one another

And the main reason for why we, men, get attracted to beautiful women is because we subconsciously believe that she'll make us better kids, pure primal brain in a sense. And other qualities rather than looks are basically about being a good mother,wife and a "companion" (Intelligent - can have good conversations with, can discuss stuff, a good family diplomat, a good house manager, etc). 

I like this POV a lot, it seems to hold a lot of truth

Edited December 1, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[knakoo]

3 hours ago, Bando said:

@knakoo Great advice, I remember reading that reddit post a while back, its funny to know the the person who created it is on this forum

The goal every guy should have in dating is to just "be" and let attraction come naturally without the need of mind games, negging, pedasltes, worrying about being high value ect, you can just let things happen naturally. But this is only after you learn how to attract women (I suggest pick up), integrate it into your own personality and then transcend it altogether.

If you go about dating the right way you should come full circle, I started off as a "nice guy" and worked hard to break that pattern, got deep into pick up and learning all these "tactics" Leo often talks about, (they do work btw) and got great results and then started doing intense emotional healing and spirituality work. Honestly I even feel more of a "nice guy" then when I started because I know its authentic and not some cover to gain approval. Theres is no "talk to her like you're a king" or "look for something to neg on" but just being natural which makes dating feel sooo much better.

Don't aim to just get chicks, but also aim to clean up and make the process of getting chicks more conscious and non-manipulative, make it enjoyable for everyone
 

Yes I totally agree with you. It was a similar path for me. 

I would love to know what is the profile of that guy ! Can you share it with us or PM me please ?

[Jordan A]

Thanks for your replies, it was insightful to read them. Some of these tweaks I think will really help to be more conscious of.

On 11/30/2020 at 2:06 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Jordan A

You need to grow some balls and act more cocky around women. But you will not be abusing them. Make that distinction.

 

I think in general, Im realizing more and more how assertiveness, competitiveness, and conviction are important traits in life. Yeah I think making the distinction between cockiness and actually being harmful is important for me. I guess I just developed like a nice guy persona to some extent.

On 11/30/2020 at 2:06 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Jordan A Be more authentic with your negative feelings. Stop trying to only be positive with her. Then you will shed your nice guy image.

 

That makes sense. It's not that I don't have any experience with women, but over the years, this is one thing I never really realized until now. I pretty much always am positive . I guess its more manipulative than if I were just being authentically negative at times. 

 

 

On 11/30/2020 at 4:32 PM, Preety_India said:

Appear "nice and caring" rather than "nice and needy." that makes all the difference. 

 

Definitely, I can work on that.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Jordan A
I wanted to reword my answer

[Leo Gura]

On 12/1/2020 at 9:41 AM, ColeMC01 said:

@Leo Gura If they are dating you they will be super hurt if you date other girls even if the relationship talk has not happened yet. They will see you as a fuckboy that is not loyal.

Girls are super flakey by their nature. There is no official relationship until there's been sex multiple times and she wants to get serious. Until then it's first come first serve. Don't sit around waiting for her. Go on with your life as usual.

Do not act like you're exclusive with a girl while there hasn't even been sex yet. This is needy behavior. She should sense some threat that if she doesn't lock you down you will have plenty of options with other girls. Set up your attitude and lifestyle such that she feels that you are the type of guy who has plenty of options. That doesn't necessarily mean you will use all those options, but she should feel lucky that you choose her out of all your other options.

The reality is that high value men have lots of options and girls know it. Losers have no options and girls know that too.

If she wants to lock you down, make her work a bit to do it, so that she can appreciate what she's getting.

[ColeMC01]

@Leo Gura Thank you very much for this detailed explanation.

I wonder though if this applies only to hot girls or to every girl. I tend to be more personality than looks focused and i would be pretty cool with a decent looking girl (around 6/10 in looks). Will this advice work for her or is it more centered around the 8,9 and 10s.

 

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, ColeMC01 said:

around 6/10 in looks

Such a girl will be more insecure so go a bit easier on her.

[ColeMC01]

@Leo Gura Yeah that is why i wrote what i wrote above about girls being turned off by you talking to other girls and being a player etc. I feel like a 6/10 girl would like if you invest in her a bit more rather than treating her like she is nothing. Personally,  I never would go for hot girls because i feel like it's not worth it unless they have a great personality to go with it. I tend to be more feminine in this area and select girls more like girls do select guys (kinda). 

[Leo Gura]

@ColeMC01 You don't tell her anything about you being a player. You are just being a high value guy.

Brad Pitt does not need to tell anyone he dates that he's a player. But you know he ain't waiting around for you. If you want him, you better snap him up or he will find someone else.

Nothing about this is ever explicitly said. It's all just part of being a high value guy. High value guys have lots of options and girls LOVE this. They want to snap him up.

Sounds like you are looking for excuses to be needy with girls. You are setting your sights low because you don't see yourself as worthy of a hot girl. That's some bad inner game that you should work to fix.

A 6/10 girl can have a shitty personality just like any girl can.

[Kalki Avatar]

@Leo Gura  How do you manage going Meta and at the same time dating girls, playing etc. 

Going Meta fucked up my attraction for a while. I recognize I used to be more attractive when I was ignorant. I was full of self belief and arrogance. I dont regret it, cuz I prefer truth than girls. But, since you were about to start dating, I wonder how do you manage to stay attractive and fck with your mind and reality at the same time. I went very mentally and emotionally unstable with girls when I discovered pickup and tried to do both at the same time without having any idea of what I was getting into, lol. 

[Hello from Russia]

4 minutes ago, Kalki Avatar said:

@Leo Gura  How do you manage going Meta and at the same time dating girls, playing etc. 

Going Meta fucked up my attraction for a while. I recognize I used to be more attractive when I was ignorant. I was full of self belief and arrogance. I dont regret it, cuz I prefer truth than girls. But, since you were about to start dating, I wonder how do you manage to stay attractive and fck with your mind and reality at the same time. I went very mentally and emotionally unstable with girls when I discovered pickup and tried to do both at the same time without having any idea of what I was getting into, lol. 

Lol, going meta will skyrocket your results in attraction, it seems that you're doing something wrong.

Just start contemplating dating and what the girl is

Edited December 4, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Kalki Avatar]

@Hello from Russia @Leo Gura

It made me more attractive in a different sense. My energy was different. I was totally non needy and mysterious, positive, relaxed and in self control. Etc. But i did not had a strong personality Nor character. I was deconstructing it. The attraction was not completely animal. Thats the type of sexual attraction girls feel towards a rockstar. Girls could feel my innocence, transparency and kindness and take it as weakness. They would try to manipulate me when they saw I was giving them freedom. 

Also, girls could feel attratcted towards me only in my presence or if we had interacted before. But if I tried online dating it was hard getting them to me cuz they mistake kindness, playfulness, etc for weakness. And I was not going to put a profile of my old personality, selling something she was not going to experience. And it also depends on the type of girl. Here in my country girls are very manipulative. Its a third World country. You have no idea how lucky it is to date american an euro girls in comparison to latín third World country girls when you are established in a higher paradigm of truth. Here they will not think twice between that kind of guy and dominant alpha street guy with lots of money. 

The communication the alpha stereo type gives is 1000x times more powerful than a guy who is becoming spiritual. Since the alpha gestures communicate directly into the unconscious gene code. In the other hand, i would be a  rare diamond they have no idea. No agression, no strong character, etc. Its easily mistaken. Attraction judges the front cover before tasting the substance. Why would they pick an angel (me), when its full of demons around here. Its difficult to explain. I know it has lot to do with culture and location in here. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Kalki Avatar

[Free Mind]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are setting your sights low because you don't see yourself as worthy of a hot girl. That's some bad inner game that you should work to fix.

Is your inner game genuine Leo? Sometimes I fear that my self-image/concept will never reach that ideal place of true confidence because my negative self-image is soooo deeply ingrained in my psyche. When I try to do all this subconscious reprogramming stuff and visualization, the most I get is this pseudo-confidence that masks my inner anxiety and insecurities. I just can’t seem tap into genuine and authentic change. Makes me want to resort to just changing the outer (more money, gym, better clothes, etc.)...

[ColeMC01]

@Leo Gura Of course they can. I am VERY VERY strict when it comes to personality, looks however i do not care that much about. Usually guys go for hot girls while i go for girls with great personality so that is why i clarified this so you knew i was not refering to hot girls. I would not say i am needy, my personality tends to make me very independent and able to enjoy my own company (plus i have friends and goals etc), it is just that i tend to be attentive and very kind and it can be confused for neediness since so many people are selfish af and only act nice to get pussy. 

High value guys dont have necessarily a lot of options. If you do not go out and are dont meet new people every week then you will not get laid. A low value guy can get more girls if he goes out a few times per week then a high value guy if he does not. I would consider you a high value guy and you will not get laid unless you go out or use some sort of online dating for example. Same logic applies for everyone.

You dont have to meet new people every week to be considered a high value guy.