Am I doing meditation wrong?

[r0ckyreed]

2 hours ago, TripleFly said:

Man at this point I think that all my thinking is not going to lead me anywhere. I have seen myself going through these genius states and deep understandings and realizations. And I have also seen myself abuse those to get what I want. My thinking mind, is my emotional-thinking matrix, my ego, my self, whatever you want to call it. 

It's really hard to trust that, and I hope I have learned my lesson by this point. I know a thing or two, but my own arrogance really sucked.

For me it's about going, finding that deep deep sense of love inside. And being whole with that. And reality just spontaneously summons up whatever you need at that point. And I can choose it, safely, because I am coming from love. I think we can be all most vulnerable to love. But we have to be able to tell what it is.

In my opinion, we should first learn how to think before we stop thinking. Too many people don’t know how to think and thinking becomes a self-deceptive and suffering mechanism. 
 

Thinking or imagination is God’s gift. If we neglect thinking, we neglect a big part of our lives. Almost everything around you is born of thought. 

42 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Meditation’s wonderful. Letting the story go is even better. Insight arises in the empty cup, reality becomes the story. 

True, but I also think we should strive to be a conscious thinker. Too many people are unconscious thinkers or do not really think at all.

Our mind is a muscle and if we stop using it for a while, it may become weak. If we use it in a conscious/contemplative manner, it may become stronger. I feel like that death will be my ultimate no-mind. I might as well grow my mind while I am alive and brief periods of silence in mind will help, but I do not strive for permanent silence in mind. That to me would be death.

1 hour ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@r0ckyreed Shinzen young has a guide (5 ways to know yourself) you should read that.

I recommend reading Shinzen Youngs guide I just mentioned and Adyashantis "True Meditation" Book.

I'll give you a hint, there is no difference between meditating or not meditating. There is no doing or not-doing. 

Shinzen Young uses the "Do Nothing Meditation" in contrast to the "labelling meditation". Meditation vs anti meditation he sais.

The do nothing meditation is pretty easy. "Whenever you realise(!) you have the intention to control the attention, let that intention go"
It's not trying not to meditate, it is meditation without effort. If you meditate and you do that sometimes, you'll notice you will simply fall into a concentrated effortless state sometimes.

"If labeling makes you too racey do nothing, if do nothing makes you to spacey, label" - shinzen young

Adyashantis Meditation is maybe perfect for you. It is meditation with as little effort as possible. About 99percent "allowing everything to happen" like the do nothing meditation, and only IF YOU NOTICE you are to deep into thinking, (so you don't have to put effort into it) you bring the attention as gently and calm as possible back to the object of concentration. You let go of the thoughts instead of switching with effort.

You might not be there yet, but a lot of people "fall into meditation" instead of being bored while having to wait for something. You have to find just the right amount of effort to meditate.
 

Thank you.

[Nahm]

33 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

True, but I also think we should strive to be a conscious thinker. Too many people are unconscious thinkers or do not really think at all.

Our mind is a muscle and if we stop using it for a while, it may become weak. If we use it in a conscious/contemplative manner, it may become stronger. I feel like that death will be my ultimate no-mind. I might as well grow my mind while I am alive and brief periods of silence in mind will help, but I do not strive for permanent silence in mind. That to me would be death.

Wishing you all the best. ?? 

[Endangered-EGO]

15 hours ago, The0Self said:

It seems a common mistake with this is truly dropping effort entirely. Until a very late stage, you still want to maintain a single thread of effort: remaining vigilant to notice active intentions that you have conscious control over, so that you can drop them as soon as you recognize them.

I don't agree. The do nothing is the contrast to meditation with effort. It is so the mind learns to meditate on auto pilot. Of course it needs to be alternated with meditation with effort/concentration. The do nothing meditation is for people who already meditate. People who don't meditate cannot not-meditate, because their doing-nothing is always the same.
It is also a good to notice how the attention has changed from regular meditation. Advanced meditators just sit down, close their eyes and meditations just happens. 
 

[r0ckyreed]

On 11/30/2020 at 11:35 AM, Endangered-EGO said:

I recommend reading Shinzen Youngs guide I just mentioned and Adyashantis "True Meditation" Book.

Is this the book you are talking about?

https://www.amazon.com/Way-Liberation-Practical-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1937195171/ref=nodl_

[The0Self]

On 12/1/2020 at 5:09 AM, Endangered-EGO said:

I don't agree. The do nothing is the contrast to meditation with effort. It is so the mind learns to meditate on auto pilot. Of course it needs to be alternated with meditation with effort/concentration. The do nothing meditation is for people who already meditate. People who don't meditate cannot not-meditate, because their doing-nothing is always the same.
It is also a good to notice how the attention has changed from regular meditation. Advanced meditators just sit down, close their eyes and meditations just happens. 
 

With that I agree. But even people who meditate can often just relax to the point where they're kind of spacing out and not really funneling their full conscious power into being aware of what's happening. Do-Nothing as per Shinzen still has an intention (intention=effort) -- the intention to notice intentions that you currently have, so that you can release them. Yes, eventually even that intention can be let go of. But really, what can be glimpsed is that if you're experiencing anything at all, there is some subtle fabrication in play; some very fine layer of self, which is inseparable from intention/effort. There is only truly no-effort is there is no-one.

[Endangered-EGO]

On 02/12/2020 at 8:19 PM, r0ckyreed said:

Is this the book you are talking about?

https://www.amazon.com/Way-Liberation-Practical-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1937195171/ref=nodl_

No, this is the book https://www.amazon.com/True-Meditation-Discover-Freedom-Awareness-ebook/dp/B003X27LB8/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1607516883&sr=1-1

Sorry for the late response forgot the post.

 

 

On 02/12/2020 at 9:40 PM, The0Self said:

With that I agree. But even people who meditate can often just relax to the point where they're kind of spacing out and not really funneling their full conscious power into being aware of what's happening. Do-Nothing as per Shinzen still has an intention (intention=effort) -- the intention to notice intentions that you currently have, so that you can release them. Yes, eventually even that intention can be let go of. But really, what can be glimpsed is that if you're experiencing anything at all, there is some subtle fabrication in play; some very fine layer of self, which is inseparable from intention/effort. There is only truly no-effort is there is no-one.

@The0Self No, he especially states, that the do nothing is not "the intention to drop all intention" It is: Whenever you NOTICE the intention to control the attention, drop that intention. He says that the goal is not to wait for the intention to want to manipulate the attention. It is to drop the intention *IF* you notice it. 

[Nahm]

On 11/30/2020 at 1:57 PM, r0ckyreed said:

True, but I also think we should strive to be a conscious thinker. Too many people are unconscious thinkers or do not really think at all.

Another perspective which might serve well, is that there are no conscious thinkers per se. That thought arises, but there is no one ‘there’ to take the credit for ‘thinking’. The thought that there is, and perhaps identifying with that thought that there is, could be what makes meditation seem difficult. In this perspective, the thought that too many people are unconscious thinkers would be recognized to be a judgement & misunderstanding on the behalf of one identified with thoughts. This also points to the usefulness of scrutinizing direct experience, or, inspecting is there a thinker, are there other thinkers in direct experience. 

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Our mind is a muscle and if we stop using it for a while, it may become weak.

Likewise in this case, the claiming or identifying with the thought ‘our mind’ and the narrative of it being strong / potentially becoming weak, could be resistance to letting go, and preventative of allowing the mind to quiet and experiencing insights arise rather (than voluntary ‘thinking’).  

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If we use it in a conscious/contemplative manner, it may become stronger.

Consider there is a ‘non’ aspect, that there is a source of which these thoughts arise, and it is the only actual intelligence. In this regard, we are not using, but relaxing the mind and receiving. 

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I feel like that death will be my ultimate no-mind. I might as well grow my mind while I am alive and brief periods of silence in mind will help, but I do not strive for permanent silence in mind. That to me would be death.

In scrutinizing direct experience, is it recognized that there is no experience of death, only of the thought about “death”, and the thought which equates death to no mind. It could rightfully be said that meditation serves best by letting thoughts come & go, precisely as they already naturally appear to, and no longer attaching to or believing the thoughts. It is possible that a ‘background belief’ if you will, has been adopted which equates proper meditation / letting thoughts go, to dying. While monkey mind, or, self referential thoughts may certainly fizzle out, and awakening, aka enlightenment may occur, there is not a ‘you’ which actually dies. It’s just meditation really. In the absence of the activity of mind referred to as voluntary thinking & self referential thinking (thoughts about “yourself”) the true nature is, and is recognized to always have been, meditation. 

[Forestluv]

On 11/29/2020 at 1:24 PM, nistake said:

I strongly recommend Culadasa's book The Mind Illuminated. It revolves around breath meditation and it is very-very detailed. It contains countless really useful pointers.

I wasn't sure that I meditated correctly for a long time either, just like you, soI started to read and follow the book. Now, I'm pretty sure I'm making huge progress.

I’m about 1/4 through the book. I love his model of bringing attention and peripheral awareness into harmony through practice - and increasing conscious power. A very detailed and practical manual. 
 

On 11/29/2020 at 2:25 PM, The0Self said:

This makes your mind not want to be mindful and realize you aren't meditating. Try going "oh wow! I am not meditating!" This way, the realization will happen more often and quickly, until it happens so quickly that the moment it happens is synonymous with the instant you get distracted, meaning distraction never occurs.

The Witness is quite an advanced state. Unless you can meditate indefinitely with your attention on one main object, forget about The Witness for the time being. Perhaps read/listen-to The Mind Illuminated (very, very helpful) -- it doesn't even mention The Witness until 2 whole stages after intentionally entering Jhanas becomes feasible.

Yes, it’s a novice mind dynamic. 

Due the the recommendations in this thread, I’m working through The Mind Illuminated now. Culadasa goes into this mind dynamic in much greater resolution than I was aware. Very insightful and a helpful guide. It’s the best book integrating the art and science of meditation I’ve seen. “Science” in terms of deconstruction and mechanisms, not neuroscience / neurotransmitters kind stuff. 

 

[mp22]

On 29/11/2020 at 6:33 PM, Leo Gura said:

If you get lost a lot in thoughts the best method out of that is mindfulness with labeling method. See my video: Mindfulness Meditation, or check out Shinzen Young's explanations of it.

See, Hear, Feel are the best 3 labels to use.

I thought you said meditation is a waste of time?