Filming of police officers

[Hansu]

https://apnews.com/article/police-paris-police-brutality-france-emmanuel-macron-27f4206b9716691e4ba4172e9b6252ac

France recently passed a law, which made it illegal for someone to publish a video of on-duty police officers "with intent of harm"

Of course, anyone can see that this kind of joker card law is going to be used against innocent people. You can make any excuse for why any video is harming a person featured in it.

Whats your opinion? Would this kind of law allow police brutality to go unpunished? Why would an honest police officer need to be protected from evaluation of their performance on duty?

[Blackhawk]

Outrageous.

[Eph75]

A toxic reactions to a toxic phenomenon. In Sweden e.g. police officer do not dare do their job properly due to the risk of consequences, which has produced a blunt police force that is unable to address increasing problems with brutal crime. The reasons for this are complicated and highly political.

One can see that such laws would make it harder or impossible to create media hunts against police officers that actually enforces the law, making this out to be more about race than the actual crimes committet, a side-effect of the paradoxal contradiction of post-modernism views, something that Sweden is struggling with.

France is of course not like Sweden, in many ways, so I can't relate Sweden's going-on with those in France. 

Above is under the assumption that the actions of the police are supported by the generally accepted views on morale and laws. So from this perspective, they could "help" with specific percieved problems.

From the freedom of speech perspective and the right to critically review the actions of the people of and function of the state, it is highy problematic. Even if the above morale and law perspectives are fulfilled within the actions themselves, it is highly problematic. 

Of course, if there is police brutality or racial biases and so on thrown in the mix, it will act as a veil to allow covering up or diffusing the immoral going-ons within state interference with expected freedom(s) and rights. 

A phrase like “physical or psychological integrity” becomes much too vague to ensure high morality behind the judgement of the individual cases. 

There's much room for interpretation of the underlying intensions, room for interpret action that would be nice to get cleared away, to better understand what the problem they are trying to address with this law really is. 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Eph75

[Blackhawk]

23 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

In Sweden e.g. police officer do not dare do their job properly due to the risk of consequences, which has produced a blunt police force that is unable to address increasing problems with brutal crime. The reasons for this are complicated and highly political.

Do you have a reliable source for that or is it your own hypothesis?

[Opo]

Umm.. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/k3088g/france_burns_as_the_first_phase_of_a_deeply/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[Eph75]

3 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Do you have a reliable source for that or is it your own hypothesis?

There were several parts in that paragraph that could be looked at individually, but ultimately the hypothesis is mine based my own sense-making in turn based on a multitude of information, interviews with police officers (among others, this is not limited to law enforcement) and the progression of the discussion climate throughout the years here in Sweden, and it seemingly getting closer to reaching a pinacle.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Eph75

[Blackhawk]

2 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

There were several parts in that paragraph that could be looked at individually, but ultimately the hypothesis is mine based my own sense-making in turn based on multitudes of information and progression of the discussion climate throughout the years here in Sweden, and it seemingly getting closer to reaching a pinacle. 

I see. Well, I think your hypothesis is wrong.

[Eph75]

11 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

I see. Well, I think your hypothesis is wrong.

Duly noted. 

I'm assuming that you are from Sweden. 

Feel free to add nuance, always curious on adding perspectives. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Eph75

[peachboy]

5 hours ago, Hansu said:

Of course, anyone can see that this kind of joker card law is going to be used against innocent people.

 

 

You mean like when a couple of Spanish policemen tase an un-armed woman simply because she took her mother to a psychologist's appointment against Covid regulations?

 

[Preety_India]

This is very wrong and very bad 

A government should be transparent in a democracy. 

The police is a part of the government or the State. They should not be allowed to hide their actions. 

What if a police officer deliberately arrests a French man and if he is innocent then it will be massive injustice to throw him in jail on falsified evidence. 

Utterly wrong. And I don't think French people are happy with such a law.. 

Police are known to be corrupt and evasive of their duties. People are known to make innocent arrests because there is always at least one bad apple in the police department. Such bad apples will get away with their actions. 

 

[Blackhawk]

23 minutes ago, peachboy said:

 

 

You mean like when a couple of Spanish policemen tase an un-armed woman simply because she took her mother to a psychologist's appointment against Covid regulations?

Dude.

The video doesn't show how it started. The taser was already deployed when the video started. She was probably resisting and God knows what she did.

And also, she is clearly resisting even while being tased. She's even kicking with her feet. Assault on officer right there. So, judging by that, it seems like it was justified.

If you are a stupid idiot and are resisting police officers and not doing what they say, then police have the full right to use force. I've seen so many videos of stupid idiots who haven't been cooperating. I don't know what's wrong with such people. And on that video it looks like that woman is such a person. All you need to do is cooperate, it shouldn't be that hard.

And the reason for the incident is irrelevant. For example even if you are just taking your mom to the psychologist's appointment you must do what the police say and not resist. If you don't do that, then the police will use force, which is the right thing to do with uncooperative people.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Blackhawk

[peachboy]

@Blackhawk

Oh give me a break FFS.

Grown-men electrocuting a non-armed woman for a non-violent clerical offence isn't justifiable in any fucking capacity. If a couple of burly officers cannot take control of a slim-framed woman without resorting to completely barbaric electrocution then they have failed in pretty much every category other than the Fucking Sadistic Cowards category. Failed as police, failed as men, failed as human, failed as spirit.

[Blackhawk]

1 minute ago, peachboy said:

@Blackhawk

Oh give me a break FFS.

Grown-men electrocuting a non-armed woman for a non-violent clerical offence isn't justifiable in any fucking capacity. If a couple of burly officers cannot take control of a slim-framed woman without resorting to completely barbaric electrocution then they have failed in pretty much every category other than the Fucking Sadistic Cowards category. Failed as police, failed as men, failed as human, failed as spirit.

Like I said. The video doesn't show what caused them to deploy the taser. And she is violent in the video.

[Blackhawk]

@peachboy This is another example of a uncooperative idiot who thinks she has special rights against the law just because she is a woman. Women and men are equal to the law.

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Blackhawk

[Hansu]

1 hour ago, peachboy said:

 

 

You mean like when a couple of Spanish policemen tase an un-armed woman simply because she took her mother to a psychologist's appointment against Covid regulations?

 

I actually have a problem with these kind of videos, that are conveniently cut to start at a specific moment so that it only shows one side. I dont agree with tazing someone physically weaker than you, but still it would be good to know how the situation escalated, and have that written/shown in the video itself.

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Hansu

[Willie]

I’d say this is a direct result of the recent police videos in the U.S. and the “defund the police” slogan that some elected officials went along with. They don’t want to see that happen in France also, so they did this to prevent it.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Willie

[snowyowl]

This subject of the public filming the police reminded me of the furore not long ago about the increase in police CCTV surveillance of the public. We lap up footage of the police but hate being filmed ourselves! And of course we rarely take film of the police behaving well and doing a good job, so it gives a distorted unrepresentative perspective of police, hence the silly campaign for defunding. 

[Hansu]

1 hour ago, snowyowl said:

We lap up footage of the police but hate being filmed ourselves!

I think people have a problem with the idea, that having CCTV all around us implies that we are dishonest people. Its obviously not the point.

Its going to be interesting when AR glasses start to become mainstream, and everyone has a pair. They are definitely going to have built-in cameras too, so in the future it wont be so obvious if someone is recording you

 

[Opo]

5 hours ago, datamonster said:

@Hansu  

Also the police in Europe is very different from the US. In most European countries the police is quite soft, punishments are very minor and people already don't take the police seriously.

Don't speak for entire Europe. 

You live in the developed part. 

[SamueLSD]

14 hours ago, peachboy said:

@Blackhawk

Oh give me a break FFS.

Grown-men electrocuting a non-armed woman for a non-violent clerical offence isn't justifiable in any fucking capacity. If a couple of burly officers cannot take control of a slim-framed woman without resorting to completely barbaric electrocution then they have failed in pretty much every category other than the Fucking Sadistic Cowards category. Failed as police, failed as men, failed as human, failed as spirit.

Physical restraint has been proven to cause more injury than a mild electrocution, Lol. That is how cops unintentionally dislocate arms, cause concussions, choke people to death, etc.  

Stop being so sensitive, I'm almost certain she would've had the chance to avoid being arrested in that way.