How, if or when should you point out someone's insecurities/shadows out to them?

[CultivateLove]

This is something I've struggled with for some time because over time it's becoming easier for me to see other people's shadows, insecurities, and traumas, without them telling me or even being aware of them themselves. 

This has created a dilemma in my mind between 

• The part that wants to maintain harmony and peace in the relationship, and not wanting to cause emotional turmoil in the other person and knock them off balance. It can be tough to admit a deep trauma or insecurity to yourself and others, especially if you begin to realize that it's more obvious to other people than yourself since it can arise deeper feelings like embarrassment, shame, self-loathing, anger etc. And it can be hard to evaluate who is and isn't ready for that. 
• The part that realizes that true healing cannot occur without first becoming aware of what the problem is, and that sometimes tough love is the better option, even if it can hurt in the beginning.

Then there's the simple fact that it's much simpler and less time consuming to get a person to like you by simply appealing to their insecurity and trauma by telling them what they want to hear, and avoiding certain topics that would make them uncomfortable. This is obviously the simpler and safer option but it will rarely result in anything but low-hanging-fruit type of rewards.

How can I find a balance between these conflicting desires?

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by CultivateLove

[Eph75]

Depends on what your idea of values and purpose are. Getting people to like you for the sake of "having" people that like you isn't useful except from an egocentric world view.

On the other hand, slapping difficult truths in the face of someone that is incapable of using that information is not helpful at all. It is more likely to raise defenses and grow resentment. 

There's a middle road, a deliberately supporting route; not telling them what they want to hear to get them to like you, and instead helping them navigate their selves/own reality in better ways, so that they can grow over time and become better at noticing their own limitations or even work on their issues, even if this is without being directly aware of it.

Deliberately designed sense-making conversation have that effect, helps the ones you talk to structure their thoughts in such a way that they allow themselves to stretch their reasoning by provinging beneficial circumstances and settings in which growth is most likely to be possible to happen. They themselves arrive at new, usually smaller iterative, yet sometimes great, insights that are transformational, that changes the how in the way we think.

Again, doing this takes time, effort and patience. The outcome is unknown so it has nothing/less to do with what your own wants and needs are and is centered on the other person's need to grow and what kind of sense and meaning they will make up for themselves is up to them. 

Desire to change people in some particular way is telling you that you are in it for change that is of personal gain, that of your ego.

"Pure" desire of helping people help themselves can still come from an egocentric world view, such as the need of achivement, social status, acceptance and acknowledgement of others, but is more "flavor-less" and less biased. The desire to help others can, and will, grow into something ever increasingly selfless. 

Finding balance is through the detachment of the desire to create change in others, so that the absolute freedom to help people can emerge, such change that is at the pace and susceptibility based only on support without any expectations. 

Working from such a position makes it all about that change work and not about expectations of change. Having desires and expectations coming from emotional attachment to reaching particual results are met by opposites in form of disappointment in self and resentment agains other. 

That's why it's important to grow ourselves in order to be able to help others grow themselves; helping ourselves to become increasingly better at helping others to better help themselves. 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Eph75

[herghly]

Unless someone asks don't say anything. 

[CultivateLove]

5 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Depends on what your idea of values and purpose are. Getting people to like you for the sake of "having" people that like you isn't useful except from an egocentric world view.

Totally agree, but I've never been one to seek for people's approval for the sake of it, it doesn't mean anything to me if I gained it through being "formal" and "polite", my most valued and stable relationships to this day were built on honesty, not surface-level people pleasing. 

5 hours ago, Eph75 said:

On the other hand, slapping difficult truths in the face of someone that is incapable of using that information is not helpful at all. It is more likely to raise defenses and grow resentment. 

Also agree, even though it took a while to get that through my sometimes thick skull 

5 hours ago, Eph75 said:

There's a middle road, a deliberately supporting route; not telling them what they want to hear to get them to like you, and instead helping them navigate their selves/own reality in better ways, so that they can grow over time and become better at noticing their own limitations or even work on their issues, even if this is without being directly aware of it.

This is what I've been doing with my close friends and family, and it has been showing results, but as you say, it's a process that takes time and patience.

5 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Deliberately designed sense-making conversation have that effect, helps the ones you talk to structure their thoughts in such a way that they allow themselves to stretch their reasoning by provinging beneficial circumstances and settings in which growth is most likely to be possible to happen. They themselves arrive at new, usually smaller iterative, yet sometimes great, insights that are transformational, that changes the how in the way we think.

I haven't looked into this deliberately, but I've been having more of these types of conversations lately, and both me and the people I've had them with have many insights, sometimes even life-changing insights. I will definitely research this more and gain a deeper understanding and mastery. 

5 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Again, doing this takes time, effort and patience. The outcome is unknown so it has nothing/less to do with what your own wants and needs are and is centered on the other person's need to grow and what kind of sense and meaning they will make up for themselves is up to them. 

True, but I've found in my experience, that most of the insights and conclusions the other person comes to in these talks are things that I've been subtly trying to point out to them. I'm no psychic, but sometimes the solution to something is a lot simpler than getting the person to realize that it's simple.

5 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Desire to change people in some particular way is telling you that you are in it for change that is of personal gain, that of your ego.

"Pure" desire of helping people help themselves can still come from an egocentric world view, such as the need of achivement, social status, acceptance and acknowledgement of others, but is more "flavor-less" and less biased. The desire to help others can, and will, grow into something ever increasingly selfless. 

It's true, I have not fully transcended ego-centrism in well, any area of my life I think. I do get some sort of feel-good, fulfillment type of feeling if I can help somebody with something, whether it's talking through emotional baggage, presenting a healthier way to look at things, or find simple solutions to seemingly complex problems from their perspective, but I'm aware of that and try not to get "my emotional fix" out of people by just trying to solve their problems, it gets tiring pretty quick for both parties. But if they come to me with issues, I'm happy to be there to listen and give my thoughts on it, this type of scenario almost always goes well.

5 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Finding balance is through the detachment of the desire to create change in others, so that the absolute freedom to help people can emerge, such change that is at the pace and susceptibility based only on support without any expectations. 

Yeah it's funny how that works, by letting go of the need for the person to change, the person becomes more open to change, because they feel accepted and therefor more safe when sharing something personal, potentially embarrassing and vulnerable, in these times I do my best to be as non-judgmental and open as I can, which makes them feel more safe to be open about things in the future. 

 

5 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Working from such a position makes it all about that change work and not about expectations of change. Having desires and expectations coming from emotional attachment to reaching particual results are met by opposites in form of disappointment in self and resentment agains other. 

Yeah I've noticed this myself, if I have expectations on how the other person should change in some aspect, they will likely fail for some reason and then beat themselves up over it and feel judged, which I'm not an advocate for, I know there are many "break them down and built them up" types when it comes to helping people but from what I've observed that type of "helping" is very myopic and ego-centric. 

5 hours ago, Eph75 said:

That's why it's important to grow ourselves in order to be able to help others grow themselves; helping ourselves to become increasingly better at helping others to better help themselves. 

This is always priority #1, can't help others if your own batteries are running low, you'll just be the blind leading the blind.

Thanks for the thought out answer man, appreciate it! 

[CultivateLove]

@herghly  

Edited November 29, 2020 by CultivateLove

[Eph75]

38 minutes ago, CultivateLove said:

Thanks for the thought out answer man, appreciate it!

♥️??