Free Will, Determinism and Soul

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

There´s no problem with that.

The problem is when you think that you are that "me"-

No problem with that either. The only problem is you can't do it. It's just a thought. No "you" is thinking thoughts . And holding on to them . Come on take a look and grasp This. It's not so hard lol. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Someone here

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Thats right I am

And yeah you might actually be wrong as a person on an even more relative level lol.

I was already aware you saw wrongness of it. It looks like I may have missed some sarcasm.

2 hours ago, Moksha said:

@Forestluv The House underlies and is every house that can be created, infinitely.

Yes, that is one form of the House I was pointing to.

2 hours ago, Moksha said:

Ultimate reality, though, is not contextual. Consciousness underlies the dream, and infuses the infinity of dream forms with its essence, but it is more than just the contextual dream maps. It is the terrain itself.

That is beautiful. Thanks for sharing it. 

[electroBeam]

3 hours ago, Forestluv said:

I was already aware you saw wrongness of it. It looks like I may have missed some sarcasm. 

Nah i didnt see any wrongness of it, but of course applying skepticism and not taking anything at face value is just a normal process that i (and i think its good for others too) to follow.

[Forestluv]

25 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Nah i didnt see any wrongness of it, but of course applying skepticism and not taking anything at face value is just a normal process that i (and i think its good for others too) to follow.

If things are working on your path, great ? 

[Javfly33]

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

No problem with that either. The only problem is you can't do it. It's just a thought. No "you" is thinking thoughts . And holding on to them . Come on take a look and grasp This. It's not so hard lol. 

Yeah, yeah, It´s an illusion. But an illusion can feel very real.

@Someone here See, pain is also an illusion, because if you investigate what pain really is, is just a physical sensation + a thought about that sensation. So fuck it! Who cares about pain? Let´s go into that dentist withouth anesthesia! I´m so fucking enlightened!

 Precisely because knowing it´s an illusion on an intellectual level is not the same as being conscious in that moment. If you would to be conscious in all moments, then that would be no problem. But that is not the case. Not for most people. 

 

[Endangered-EGO]

@lmfao Hey, that is the first instinct of someone who starts to realise that there is no free will. Being trapped by circumstances. Do what I did, contemplate thoughts and decision. Just test out thoughts/action/effort/emotions with free will.

Somehow this gave me a HUUGE sense of freedom, because I realised I have no choice but to follow my Intuition/heart. This also took away the "effort" part of deciding.

@Someone here Yes that is exactly what I did-observing and questioning thoughts-, ever thought is reactive and not creative. Thoughts reacting to each other in a self nourishing loop, without any foundation.

 

15 hours ago, electroBeam said:

IME the ego is totally different.

Not only does an ego not exist, but you've never known what an ego truly is. You're just guessing like those astronomers. And how valuable are those guesses? Debatable.

An ego is a temporary construct? Lol has that actually been verified? When did you observe a false sense of self being a temporary construct?

I am just using the ego as "the sense of identification with thoughts", I m using ego because it s easier to write.

 

 

14 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

 

Now I think that the more aware you are the more free will you can have.

 

Not in my experience, the realisation of No free will came with a big sense of freedom, freedom to not have to fight thoughts with thoughts, the mind realises the futility of fighting itself, it is like a knot that just gets bigger the more it tries to resolve itself. There is no problem for the mind to solve.
Having no free will is one of the biggest freedom of the mind. But the mind in fact never decides, it can only learn outside of it's control.

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

There´s no problem with that.

The problem is when you think that you are that "me"-

That is exactly the point. The free will illusion is from the mind, but the mind needs it to make decisions based on everything else but the free-will paradox. The paradox needs to be taken out of the equation, for the mind to function: The mind cannot say "Well it doesn't matter what I do, because there is no free will". This is just not working, because that's also just a reaction, and a harmful one. Tricky mind haha.

@Javfly33 About pain: It is possible to enjoy physical discomfort, like cold water and heat. If you voluntarily go to the sauna, you can enjoy it for a very long time, but if you were trapped into one, you would suffer right away. But that's just survival, the alarm about being close to death is ringing, if you know you can get out any second, the pain is not making you suffer.

[Someone here]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Yeah, yeah, It´s an illusion. But an illusion can feel very real.

@Someone here See, pain is also an illusion, because if you investigate what pain really is, is just a physical sensation + a thought about that sensation. So fuck it! Who cares about pain? Let´s go into that dentist withouth anesthesia! I´m so fucking enlightened!

 Precisely because knowing it´s an illusion on an intellectual level is not the same as being conscious in that moment. If you would to be conscious in all moments, then that would be no problem. But that is not the case. Not for most people. 

 

Don't worry your life is like a movie it's all scripted. You are merely playing the script out. 

If there is no "you".. Then there is no you to make of the fact that there is no you anything lol. 

I'm not saying there is no you and no free will so you might as well just sit on the couch doing nothing. What needs to be done will get done. Kinda like when you have to go to the bathroom you have to go to the bathroom lol. Stuff will still get done via your body mind. It's just that there  is no "you" in the middle of this whole thing doing anything. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Someone here

[SoonHei]

there is free will!

um, aite... now what?

there is no free will!

um, aite... now what?

[Moksha]

16 hours ago, snowyowl said:

You say the ego doesn't exist, then give a perfectly good definition of just what it is. 

So, I'll say an ego is a construct of feeling and thought, perhaps not very enlightened thought, but to say it doesn't exist is like saying a house doesn't exist, it's just a collection of bricks. Like the Buddhist analogy of a chariot not existing apart from its component parts. Hopefully we can agree that egos don't exist separately, don't have inherent existence. I'm just using ego as a label for a certain pattern within my mind. 

The house is simply the bricks in a certain pattern. Ego is the pattern. As ego dissolves, the pattern loses cohesion, and the underlying data resolve back into Consciousness itself.

[Moksha]

@Forestluv ? Infinite trails through the forest, in the forest itself.

 

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

there is free will!

um, aite... now what?

there is no free will!

um, aite... now what?

Perfect karate chop to the ego ?

[snowyowl]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

The house is simply the bricks in a certain pattern. Ego is the pattern. As ego dissolves, the pattern loses cohesion, and the underlying data resolve back into Consciousness itself.

Nice, we are one in essence

[SoonHei]

8 hours ago, Moksha said:

Perfect karate chop to the ego ?

?⚡?♥️