The employment of flower-power talk to hide the lack of real understanding

[Red-White-Light]

@Nahm I don't believe that the present moment has any intentions, other than to create as opposed to having Absolute Nothing, because this can only be Absolute Nothing.

[Forestluv]

As often the case, it’s context dependent. Not being willing and able to see context leads to dismissive categorization.

Are there situations in which someone uses “flower power” talk to hide lack of understanding? For sure. I’ve done it myself. Back when I was engaged in a sangha, I wanted to fit in and I would parrot things like “we are all one”. Yet I didn’t have any depth. As well, such talk can be used for spiritual bypassing or avoiding the work of practice, introspection and developing deeper understanding.

Pisaq Peru is place were various voyagers and seekers cross paths. I met so many interesting people there. Some people I met had no jobs and were wandering around doing multiple Ayahuasca retreats per week. They would say things like “Time is an illusion”, yet it was clear there was no depth, they were wandering souls in la-la land. Yet it would have been a huge mistake for me to dismissively label anyone who does Aya and says things like “Time is an illusion” as in La-la land. I also met very deep, expansive mystics in Aya communities and ceremonies. 

As well, the flip side is that logic can also be used to hide lack of real understanding. I’ve used logic to hide my lack of metaphysical understanding. There is also the context of that which is to be understood. We can draw distinctions between an understanding a mathematical equation and an intuitive understanding of immaterial entanglement. Just as we could draw a distinction between an understanding of how to repair a broken refrigerator and how to raise chickens.

[Nahm]

4 minutes ago, Red-White-Light said:

@Nahm I don't believe that the present moment has any intentions, other than to create as opposed to having Absolute Nothing, because this can only be Absolute Nothing.

Is it seen, the attributing one’s own interpretation, to “something else”...absolute, nothing, the present moment, creation, etc? (Having absolutely nothing, this can only be absolutely nothing)

[Red-White-Light]

@Nahm I don't know how else an experience could be spoken without interpretation.

[Gesundheit]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

 

Am I supposed to be seeing something here?

[Forestluv]

22 minutes ago, Red-White-Light said:

I got what she was saying. I just didn't think comparing a sword to a flower is a good point to make, because it assumes paper can beat scissors. 

There is a saying that “A pen is mightier than a sword”. It doesn’t literally mean a pen is superior in a sword fight. There are different contexts. 

[Red-White-Light]

@Forestluv Yeah, context is very important here, you're right.

[Nahm]

@Red-White-Light

How does the interpretation feel ? 

[Red-White-Light]

@Nahm Biased to me.

[Nahm]

@Red-White-Light

‘Biased to me’ is logic, thought, dual.

How does it feel? 

Is it seen, when asked about the attributing of interpretation to someone or something or some no thing else...response was to write off all interpretation? 

 

[Red-White-Light]

@Nahm Not to write off, more to be aware of. Feeling is also interpretation, no?

[Nahm]

1 minute ago, Red-White-Light said:

@Nahm Not to write off, more to be aware of. Feeling is also interpretation, no?

TNT couldn’t wipe this smile off this face...

No. Feeling is not, interpretation. 

 

[Red-White-Light]

@Nahm Define feeling.

[Nahm]

@Red-White-Light

I’m loving where you’re going, and feel pm would be more ideal (as in beneficial for ya) at this point. If interested, message me anytime. 

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

 

@Leo Gura @Nahm maybe we could create a 'New To Non-Duality / Spirituality Thread' which recommends some of the best books, videos, teachings etc that help new people understand the path? 

I know you have your booklist & videos, but sometimes so much choice can be overwhelming, perhaps finding the 3 best Beginner books & videos for examples with help people at the start, and will prevent very entry level questions & situations like this. 

Almost like if you were going to teach someone to Code, you'd expect them to know how to turn on the computer & the basics of technology, you wouldn't want to have to teach them the very, very basicS? 

I love this idea, but I couldn't wrap my head around trying to determine what teachings should come first without knowing someone. From my perspective people intuit different things and are all over the place with nonduality and spirituality. I'll read a section of writing or watch a video and get a lot from it, go back later and it's entirely different. I actually filtered the writing with my own level of understanding. It's just so... well you can't grasp it. 

[Inliytened1]

The funny thing is i didn't get to tell him -  yeah one can be spiritual and also be a technical engineer.   That is part of what i do for a living.   In another post he wanted to know why when you shift to God Consciousness that you don't come back and solve great problems within this reality.   Well i was going to tell him that you potentially could use Infinite Intelligence for the purpose of moving mankind forward in that fashion if it came from a place of selflessness - (such a thing cannot come from ego and that is where it gets tricky) and it will probably happen in generations to come...but so few today are even awake at all..and typically when you enter God Consciousness you are becoming conscious of the entire structure and nature of reality not the content.   That could come with lots of additional consciousness exploration as Leo was doing with healing.

[Moksha]

My sense is toward inclusion, even disruptive inclusion. There are rare outliers, but unless there is perpetual, deep disruption, I say let them stay.

The disruptor is experiencing the results of his disruption. That itself can be educational, with enough accumulation. The ego tends to suffocate itself, given enough expression.

The disruption is a gift to us, too. It is a foil, or a mirror, for our own spiritual development.

It is easy to love people with little ego. Growth needs resistance; let this be a spiritual gym for building muscle. ?

[Moksha]

2 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

@Moksha  

I am not sure if an emotional black whole is good for the atmosphere of the forum to have.

Black holes are a portal to the whole

[Corpus]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

 

Are there situations in which someone uses “flower power” talk to hide lack of understanding? For sure. I’ve done it myself. Back when I was engaged in a sangha, I wanted to fit in and I would parrot things like “we are all one”. Yet I didn’t have any depth. As well, such talk can be used for spiritual bypassing or avoiding the work of practice, introspection and developing deeper understanding.

. 

As well, the flip side is that logic can also be used to hide lack of real understanding. I’ve used logic to hide my lack of metaphysical understanding. There is also the context of that which is to be understood. We can draw distinctions between an understanding a mathematical equation and an intuitive understanding of immaterial entanglement. Just as we could draw a distinction between an understanding of how to repair a broken refrigerator and how to raise chickens.

^^ that is some epic honesty and high-level awareness on display.

The ban-hammer is not waved often here, fortunately. The stuff presented/discussed here is a little too other-worldly when viewed through the lens most bear, and the key implications/notions/limitations of language can be a significant stumbling block. Such is how it is.

A vid on "Language" might be a useful one to shoot, especially as the vids are composed of it. 

[Adamq8]

I do feel guys that we need more non dual scientists in the world.

Sure science and stuff of the dream is totally relative but still, I think alot of people are kinda ready for a major shift in paradigm. 

We need to discard the limited view of materialism. 

Alot of people are suffering because of it unknowingly. 

They have been indocrinated since birth into this paradigm including me.

But when you actually start to investigate reality it is nothing in my experience that makes me validate alot of what the materialists talk about.

Atleast not the metaphysics of it.

But I really think we need more people who is a scientist and a non dualist. 

Non dual scientist start from the right view, that it is one and conciousness is primary. 

I dont understand how Daniel Dennet for example tells that conciousness is an illusion but he is using his conciousness to make that statement ?

What do you guys think?