Peter Ralston on psychedelics

[The0Self]

6 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

What I ment is that I have reached the same level of consciousness that before would take a moderate dose of LSD to achieve. Now having that baseline, that same dose takes me even higher, as it usually happens to everybody with Psyches if they do Consciousness work.

A great way to "lock in" the Psychedelic consciousness is trying to recreate those levels of Imagination the days after the trip IME. It's like steroids for Imagination developement.

This has been true in my experience as well. It used to take me 700-1000ug LSD to experience the godhead. Eventually it only took 110ug. I've since experienced that state without the use of drugs, a handful of times.

[Leo Gura]

You can push your software and hardware to its limits, but eventually you will still hit a biological limit since you are committed to being in that human form.

You can't do what LSD can do simply through visualiation. Visualization is nice, but it is still limited by your hardware.

[Fran11]

2 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I don't see how it's possible to access or maintain my highest levels of psychedelic-induced conscious states.  

IME, the only way is thourgh very intense Imagination developement. I personally started doing Consciousness work before I even knew about Spirituality because of art.

I recommend you check out the sensory concentration excercises in Franz Bardon's Initiation into Hermetics.

You'll notice that Imagination has sort of "levels of density", very much like Psychedelic hallucinations look faint at low doses, but they become very solid and concrete as you up your dose. 

You have to condense your Imagination as much as possible, that's the sign of progress.

You'll notice your Mindfulness and Consciousness grow along with it.

[James123]

13 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

That seems to be what some call "raising one's baseline level of consciousness".

That's what I was referring to with upgrading ones software or hardware. Ime, I don't see how it's possible to access or maintain my highest levels of psychedelic-induced conscious states. Yet I can access what seems like a low dose of psychedelics with things like yoga, running, shamanic breathing, meditation in nature, watching nonduality videos, Leo's metaphysics videos, staring in space, lucid dream states etc. 

Saying “I” am raising my level of consciousness or at high state of consciousness is the most absurd thing for awakening. It is completely indirect way for awakening. Because the self who writes these messages is an illusion. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can push your software and hardware to its limits, but eventually you will still hit a biological limit since you are committed to being in that human form.

You can't do what LSD can do simply through visualiation. Visualization is nice, but it is still limited by your hardware.

Just dont think. Thats your highest level of consciousness. Dont try to push so called body so much (thats all ego). Like there is a body and you are inside of it. These are just thoughts thats it. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by James123

[ItsNick]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Visualization is nice, but it is still limited by your hardware.

Aren't where psychedelics can take you still limited by your hardware?

I don't think their potential is unlimited. But if I'm wrong I wonder why.

Edited December 2, 2020 by ItsNick

[Fran11]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't do what LSD can do simply through visualiation. Visualization is nice, but it is still limited by your hardware.

If hardware really was a limitation for Consciousness, then you wouldn't be able to reach Infinite Consciousness even thourgh Psyches becouse every hardware is limited  

Plus, you can separate your subtle bodies from your phsysical body (as in astral travels) and the brain and neurochemistry limitations will be long gone at that point.

I'm suprised even you have such a materialistic view about this. I bet in a coulpe years of developement you will change your mind about this.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Fran11

[The0Self]

35 minutes ago, Adamq8 said:

Can you share more about the Jhanas? It sounds interesting 

There's quite a bit of info out there on the jhanas. My favorite is the entire body of work of Rob Burbea.

Jhana's are a collection of high concertation absorption states that many people who get obsessed with meditation will eventually stumble into.

They are progressive experiences that reveal the mind to be structured in layers of increasing subtlety.

1st jhana: exhilarating pleasure and happiness

2: happiness overpowers the exhilarating pleasure

3: exhilaration subsides completely; unimaginably profound peace

4: happiness is no longer the focus; utter equanimous stillness

5: boundless space

6: boundless consciousness; energetic witness

7: no-thing

8: neither perception nor non perception

9: cessation of time/self/thing (noticed after the fact in one of a few different ways, one of which is as a hard jump forward in time)

There are more levels, and combinations/cocktails of each.

And 5 addtional jhanas called the Pure Land Jhanas have been discovered

[Forestluv]

@Fran11 My experience and relationship with psychedelics has some overlap with what you describe, yet also some significant differences. 

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, James123 said:

Saying “I” am raising my level of consciousness or at high state of consciousness is the most absurd thing for awakening. It is completely indirect way for awakening. Because the self who writes these messages is an illusion. 

In that context, of course.

It's all context dependent. When visiting China, speak Chinese.

Mind like water

[Michal__]

5 minutes ago, The0Self said:

There's quite a bit of info out there on the jhanas. My favorite is the entire body of work of Rob Burbea.

Jhana's are a collection of high concertation absorption states that many people who get obsessed with meditation will eventually stumble into.

They are progressive experiences that reveal the mind to be structured in layers of increasing subtlety.

1st jhana: exhilarating pleasure and happiness

2: happiness overpowers the exhilarating pleasure

3: exhilaration subsides completely; unimaginably profound peace

4: happiness is no longer the focus; utter equanimous stillness

5: boundless space

6: boundless consciousness; energetic witness

7: no-thing

8: neither perception nor non perception

9: cessation of time/self/thing (noticed after the fact in one of a few different ways, one of which is as a hard jump forward in time)

There are more levels, and combinations/cocktails of each.

And 5 addtional jhanas called the Pure Land Jhanas have been discovered

Which jhãnas do you have access to?

Also do you notice that there's a difference in strength session to session? I think it's called "soft jhãnas" but they always make me unsure of whether I practice correctly when I experience the soft versions.

[Fran11]

5 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@Fran11 My experience and relationship with psychedelics has some overlap with what you describe, yet also some significant differences. 

Understandable.

Hope it's been useful anyways 

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

Hope it's been useful anyways 

Relative usefulness is so intriguing.

Yes, they have been very useful. 

[The0Self]

6 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

Which jhãnas do you have access to?

Also do you notice that there's a difference in strength session to session? I think it's called "soft jhãnas" but they always make me unsure of whether I practice correctly when I experience the soft versions.

Currently, 1-4. I've only experienced 5, 6, and 7 when meditating at least 5 hours a day. Never been to 8. I meditate for 65 minutes on most days now and usually get to the 2nd jhana, but not always.

And yes there is degrees for how embedded they can be. Hard jhanas can feel like a very strange but blissful solid brick of solidified experiential pleasure. But usually it's kind of like a switch -- you're either in jhana or not, and it's extremely obvious.

Edited December 2, 2020 by The0Self

[Malekakisioannis]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can push your software and hardware to its limits, but eventually you will still hit a biological limit since you are committed to being in that human form.

You can't do what LSD can do simply through visualiation. Visualization is nice, but it is still limited by your hardware.

That's false. Psychotic hallucinations are an example. and they are not based on an external factor (more often than not)

[Consilience]

7 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Currently, 1-4. I've only experienced 5, 6, and 7 when meditating at least 5 hours a day. Never been to 8. I meditate for 65 minutes on most days now and usually get to the 2nd jhana, but not always.

And yes there is degrees for how embedded they can be. Hard jhanas can feel like a very strange but blissful solid brick of solidified experiential pleasure. But usually it's kind of like a switch -- you're either in jhana or not, and it's extremely obvious.

What’s interesting is I accidentally stumbled into the 4th and 5th Jhana on an insight retreat with Shinzen Young using his See Hear Feel technique. Eventually you can start to experience the spaciousness of not only body sensations but sights and sounds. I believe the work I did on that retreat has helped with accessing the 5th using a more concentration focused technique because if Im having trouble feeling infinite space, I can tune into trying to see or hear it.

Because of the weird stumbling into of the Jhanas, I actually had trouble accessing 1-3 after discovering such a profound equanimity from insight. 

There’s also varying depths to the Jhanas which is interesting. Ive experienced a “light” 5th Jhana where I wouldn’t say space felt infinite, but the feeling of my body was dissolving moment by moment like quicksand, and extending out, yet not to the degree of what a fully stabilized 5th jhana is. Yeah the degrees and cocktails of the Jhana states are quite intricate. 

[The0Self]

9 minutes ago, Consilience said:

What’s interesting is I accidentally stumbled into the 4th and 5th Jhana on an insight retreat with Shinzen Young using his See Hear Feel technique. Eventually you can start to experience the spaciousness of not only body sensations but sights and sounds. I believe the work I did on that retreat has helped with accessing the 5th using a more concentration focused technique because if Im having trouble feeling infinite space, I can tune into trying to see or hear it.

Because of the weird stumbling into of the Jhanas, I actually had trouble accessing 1-3 after discovering such a profound equanimity from insight. 

There’s also varying depths to the Jhanas which is interesting. Ive experienced a “light” 5th Jhana where I wouldn’t say space felt infinite, but the feeling of my body was dissolving moment by moment like quicksand, and extending out, yet not to the degree of what a fully stabilized 5th jhana is. Yeah the degrees and cocktails of the Jhana states are quite intricate. 

Interesting. I was able to access J1 and J2 after only practicing for a few weeks, but it took years for anything else to happen. Trouble accessing J1-3 resonates with me -- J4 came before J3. Noting eventually puts me in 4th jhana. Yeah this field of exploration is huge and I consider myself as just getting started.

[Michal__]

24 minutes ago, The0Self said:

But usually it's kind of like a switch -- you're either in jhana or not, and it's extremely obvious.

I'm not really sure if I am doing it correctly - I am certain when I hit the first 2 jhãnas but when I get to experience 4th (well, what I think is 4th) it doesn't feel correct, even though it dramatically decreases my sleep need for that day (from 8 -9 hours to 4 - 5).

It's kind of like the experience is growing in intensity but stops just before it should get interesting.

Do you go smoothly from one jhãna to another or do you go in & out of them?

[lmfao]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's way deeper than merely talent.

It's more like I'm telling you that you cannot fly because you weren't born a bird. The bird isn't simply talented at flying. The bird has hardware that you don't have.

Likewise there are many things you are not conscious of because you don't have the hardware.

Right, I understand what you're saying better now

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

I'm not really sure if I am doing it correctly - I am certain when I hit the first 2 jhãnas but when I get to experience 4th (well, what I think is 4th) it doesn't feel correct, even though it dramatically decreases my sleep need for that day (from 8 -9 hours to 4 - 5).

It's kind of like the experience is growing in intensity but stops just before it should get interesting.

Do you go smoothly from one jhãna to another or do you go in & out of them?

Usually it's smooth, but sometimes I can get to 4th jhana and skip the previous ones.

[Leo Gura]

41 minutes ago, Malekakisioannis said:

That's false. Psychotic hallucinations are an example. and they are not based on an external factor (more often than not)

A psychotic person has different hardware.

You guys are like being deliberately dense on this topic. I will explain no further cause you are not even trying to understand it.

You think you can do anything, but you can't.