Peter Ralston on psychedelics

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

spiritually-gifted as Ralston

Horses**t. This is the talent mindset.

As far as we know, he worked his ass off and was seriously committed. All this “being born with X or Y” is nonsense.

Was Da Vinci born artistically-gifted? Was Buddha already spiritually-mature in past lives? Was Mozart a musical genius because he was born as a piano master?

Great justification for most people so that we feel better about ourselves.

“Natural” talents are just highly developed skills that people attribute as being inborn or genetic. Or do they occur without the investment, effort, etc. into them?

Edited November 27, 2020 by Arzola

[Forestluv]

@Arzola

Genetics is not a huge factor at intermediate levels, yet genetics becomes a big factor at the highest levels. The top 0.001% in anything have a genetic background that enables them to reach that very high level (when combined with hard work). Kobe Bryant needed good genetics AND a hard work to become a master. Very few people can get anywhere near Kobe Bryant levels, regardless of how hard they worked. 

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Arzola said:

As far as we know, he worked his ass off and was seriously committed.

He certainly worked his ass off. But if you think that Ralston is not in the top 0.0001% of spiritually gifted people on the planet, you are fooling yourself.

You ain't Ralston and you will never be.

Commitment is not enough. No matter how much a donkey tries, it will never become God-realized.

I know people who were born enlightened and who have spiritual powers that you will never have even after a lifetime of practice. When it comes to spirituality, genetics is far more important than practice. This is what gurus never tell you, because it isn't so nice to hear.

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Pookie said:

But what if spending various lifetimes of commitment and practice is precisely what it takes to reach Ralston levels? In that case anyone can reach those levels. We’re still talking time here, but on a more meta aspect encompassing lifetimes. 

Well, see ya in next lifetime then.

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, Pookie said:

But what if spending various lifetimes of commitment and practice is precisely what it takes to reach Ralston levels? In that case anyone can reach those levels. We’re still talking time here, but on a more meta aspect encompassing lifetimes. 

I spent over 20 years sitting with Buddhist groups - frustrated on the cushion and confused during the Dharma talks. And I was still scratching the surface. No mystical experiences, no awakenings. Then there arrives a substance that can gift me mystical experiences and awakenings . . . and you are telling me I should say no? That I should sit in vain the rest of my life? That maybe there is reincarnation and maybe in some future life I will get a mystical experience and awakening? C'mon. 

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Pookie said:

What's the rush? We've got eternity baby!  

It's not about "rush", it's about moving on to higher explorations.

Imagine being trapped in a cave and someone enters and shows us the exit. Then you say "What's the rush? Let's just stay trapped in the cave!". It's not about rushing, it's about leaving the cave trap, exploring outside the cave and moving on in life. 

[UnbornTao]

@Forestluv I’m curious: what are you conscious of now that you weren’t of before?

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Arzola said:

@Forestluv I’m curious: what are you conscious of now that you weren’t of before?

There are literally thousands of things.

Just one example: I spent thousands of hours contemplating ego and sitting in Dharma talks about ego. I'd get really frustrated when people at the Shangha talked gibberish . . . and they all nodded as if the gibberish made sense. . . . During the comedown of my first trip, there was the realization "Oh, so that's ego". In that one trip, I literally become conscious of that which I could not access in 20+ years of seeking. And there was no need to confirm it online or through Sangha members. It was simply revealed.  

[Leo Gura]

You can climb Mt Everest on your belly, or you can take a rocketship.

Of course those who do it on their belly will have bad things to say about those who take the rocketship.

The bottom line is, ain't nobody got time for belly-climbing.

[Forestluv]

22 minutes ago, Pookie said:

I'm all for exploration and going higher. I was just offering a possible alternative as to how people like Ralston come into this world with such spiritual prowess. I've always been intrigued with the mechanics of lifetimes and how things from one carry over to the next. 

Then why remove a variable that can influence how things can carry from one over to the next?

For example, aspects of PTSD have been shown to carry over from one generation to the next. Why spend five generations to dissolve the PTSD when it can be dissolved in a month with two sessions of MDMA?

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Why spend five generations to dissolve the PTSD when it can be dissolved in a month with two sessions of MDMA?

But drugz bad, Mmmkay?

[electroBeam]

3 hours ago, Forestluv said:

As an ungifted spiritual seeker that was gifted awakenings through 5-meo, I’ve got to be mindful of assuming it’s now simple for others. I’ve caught myself thinking: “this is simple and obvious, can’t you see it?”. I’ve got to remind myself of the 20+ years I was a garden-variety spiritual seeker scratching the surface. 

The Dunning-Kruger Effect goes both ways. People that have natural talents often underestimate their abilities. They don’t see themselves as talented and assume it’s just garden-variety stuff. A couple months ago, I watched a video of Richard Feynman creating abstractions. I giggled when I realized that Richard was aware he was speaking genius because to him it’s not genius. It’s totally normal to him.  

This isnt a spiritual talent thing, this is an awakening thing. Awakenings change your paradigm as radically as reincarnation. Nahm keeps saying "The infinite cannot know the finite" and that is a good saying. You cant wake up and still remember what its like before awakening. Its not how it works. You literally reincarnated.

@Leo Gura Whenever i read your posts you give off the vibe that psychedelics are some revolutionary magic pill far more effective then meditation, gurus and everything else. Is this your position?

Im really curious, and struggling to see how your experiences on psychedelics are so profound and what makes it more profound then sober. I'd love if you could explain more.

Sober feels to me more grounded, and crystal clear. Sober is as clear as you'll get. Psychedelics always adds in spatial distortions and makes your mind go hyperactive and just makes things unnecessarily spooky and nuts. Like a needless alice in wonderland.

The other thing is, its a memory. And memories are highly distorted. Sober is now and clear.

And you come down.

All insights, awakenings were sober. I dont know what ya talking about with psyches.

In my personal experience, i took 4 mescaline trips, each with 1 metre of cactus, and all trips were highly mild. I then took 3 ayahuasca trips(high doses) and again trips were highly mild. I then took about 30 grams of peganum harmala in frustration and had a powerful trip but no ego death and barely any breakthrough. No dmt machine elf entities, and it was only scary because i didnt expect peganum harmala to be a psychedelic of itself and had work in 8 hours of taking it. I really resonate with Ralston on psychedelics and see where he's coming from. And im not spiritually talented either so i resonate with him on a normal human level, not on a unique brain chemistry level.

[UnbornTao]

35 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

There are literally thousands of things.

Just one example: I spent thousands of hours contemplating ego and sitting in Dharma talks about ego. I'd get really frustrated when people at the Shangha talked gibberish . . . and they all nodded as if the gibberish made sense. . . . During the comedown of my first trip, there was the realization "Oh, so that's ego". In that one trip, I literally become conscious of that which I could not access in 20+ years of seeking. And there was no need to confirm it online or through Sangha members. It was simply revealed.  

Fair enough, that’s reasonable.

26 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

For example, aspects of PTSD have been shown to carry over from one generation to the next. Why spend five generations to dissolve the PTSD when it can be dissolved in a month with two sessions of MDMA?

That’s the healing or transformational aspect. I didn’t dismiss that part. And I think Ralston doesn’t, either.

What is doubtful is that they — psychedelics — produce consciousness.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Arzola

[AtheisticNonduality]

This is what happens when you do ketamine.

 

[AtheisticNonduality]

11 minutes ago, Arzola said:

What is doubtful is that they — psychedelics — produce consciousness.

What else what produce consciousness besides consciousness? They are consciousness. Are you actually arguing consciousness can't contract and expand?

[Display_Name]

25 minutes ago, Pookie said:

There are a lot of ways to go higher, and the method one chooses reflects one's personal preferences. In the case of some people like Ralston, they find value in the longer, probably more grueling and time-consuming method for their own reasons. I guess to each their own. 

“for their own reasons”  in this case = limited awareness

Ralston is extraordinary but utterly lacks nuance. His books are a great contribution, but he’s just not actually that great of a teacher.

 

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

 

@Leo Gura Whenever i read your posts you give off the vibe that psychedelics are some revolutionary magic pill far more effective then meditation, gurus and everything else. Is this your position?

Yes.

But, they will not be enough to increase your baseline level of consciousness.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Display_Name said:

he’s just not actually that great of a teacher.

He's great teacher, but he has a very specific style. If his style doesn't suit you, then you must look elsewhere.

[UnbornTao]

@AtheisticNonduality Drink caffeine. It’s also consciousness.

Relative, or life, can’t influence consciousness. States aren’t consciousness insofar as you can be happy without being conscious of the nature of consciousness.

Other things like “being one with the universe” are also a state.

Consciousness is Absolute but it’s influenced by circumstances, physiology, genetics, and/or chemistry. Interesting.

Am I missing something?

Edited November 28, 2020 by Arzola

[UnbornTao]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But, they will not be enough to increase your baseline level of consciousness.

Oh, okay.