Peter Ralston on psychedelics

[Forestluv]

Ime, high doses can blast through mind structures, yet can be really hard to integrate. It’s so far out there to a mind lacking psychedelic experience. There is value in that, yet it’s easy for the ego to regain control of the narrative and contextualize the experience within it’s narrative. That’s my impression of Sam Harris. It seems he has done a few high dose trips that has expanded his mind, yet to me he is contextualizing the trips within the Sam Harris mental narrative. 

I’ve also found it helpful to do trips in the moderate dose range in which there is a extended deconstruction and reconstruction. Yet this can be very taxing on the mind and body. When experienced as the “pre-ego death” zone, there can be a lot of discomfort, anxiety and insanity. My sense is that some minds, like Sam Harris, wants to explore consciousness - yet avoid insanity zones in which he cannot return. 

[mandyjw]

A Rupert Spira analogy really helped me understand this better recently. Picture that our normal waking state is like a camera lens in focus on objects. Out of focus there's infinite potential and inclusion of everything, but no distinguishable objects. Consciousness with no object is deep sleep. As soon as you zoom in on a subject there's duality but also everything seems clear, in focus and distinguishable, it comes into being or creation. Somewhere in between you've got archetypes, dream states, what we call the subconscious and all kinds of stuff.

There's no real state changes though, you can never pin point where you begin and end each state change, just like you can't remember your own birth. So there's a certain susceptibility to seemingly being strongly in one state or another that gets integrated or seen through. 

Like the theme of so many stories, we go out on an adventure in seemingly dangerous, magical territory, to bring back something (to the waking state.) That's the story though. The author of the story never leaves her desk. 

[Leo Gura]

Ralston grew up in the 60's and 70's, where lots of people abused psychedelics.

[James123]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ralston grew up in the 60's and 70's, where lots of people abused psychedelics.

Raltson says that he never think since his last awakening. If this is the case, no matter what he takes, nothing will effect him, because he is already it. He seems like already completely surrendered. Of course he still has a thinking process (or ego), but i dont think psychedelics can affect him. He is already nothing. What can he lose? 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, James123 said:

Raltson says that he never think since his last awakening.

I don't know what that means. Obviously he thinks since he talks and writes. He thinks 5-MeO-DMT doesn't produce awakening. Which is not only thinking, it's bad thinking.

Quote

He seems like already completely surrendered.

Good. But so what? We're not necessarily talking about him. We're talking about awakening the rest of mankind. And since the majority of his students are not awake it would be a shame to deny them the benefits of something like 5-MeO-DMT by dismissing it.

How would you feel if I was a billionaire and then I told everyone else, "Don't worry about money. Money is not important." That's would be a very entitled position.

Not everyone was born as spiritually-gifted as Ralston. And to pretend as though they were is absurd.

Quote

but i dont think psychedelics can affect him.

Oh, they can definitely affect him.

Quote

He is already nothing. What can he lose? 

It's not just about what you lose, it's also about what you gain.

He could gain some insight into Love, for example.

[Forestluv]

As an ungifted spiritual seeker that was gifted awakenings through 5-meo, I’ve got to be mindful of assuming it’s now simple for others. I’ve caught myself thinking: “this is simple and obvious, can’t you see it?”. I’ve got to remind myself of the 20+ years I was a garden-variety spiritual seeker scratching the surface. 

The Dunning-Kruger Effect goes both ways. People that have natural talents often underestimate their abilities. They don’t see themselves as talented and assume it’s just garden-variety stuff. A couple months ago, I watched a video of Richard Feynman creating abstractions. I giggled when I realized that Richard was aware he was speaking genius because to him it’s not genius. It’s totally normal to him.  

[James123]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't know what that means

One of his in his interviews he says that he didn’t think of anything after his last awakening. I dont know it is true or not. 

 

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Good. But so what? We're not necessarily talking about him. We're talking about awakening the rest of mankind. And since the majority of his students are not awake it would be a shame to deny them the benefits of something like 5-MeO-DMT by dismissing it.

I agree. Psychedelics can definitely produce awakening. After consuming 10 gr dried shrooms, i was never back. 

 

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Oh, they can definitely affect him

If he has no thought process how can it affect him? 

 

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not just about what you lose, it's also about what you gain.

He could gain Love.

Imo, he has direct experience of nothingness. And in nothingness there is no love there, it is just what you are. Even love is that something that we have learned, but nothing is what really we are, and there is no learning there just being. And We are already it.  Additionally, in awakening  there is no gaining, just being what you are. You can say you are love, however he has already realize his birth, identity and entire duality was just a thought process. When you are nothing, there is no you to gain anything. He seems already death, has no purpose,  gave up and ignore so called life. 

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously he thinks since he talks and writes.

Yes, i dont know why he still writes or talks. It doesn’t match with what he says and does. Or he does everything  without any thinking process, such as when he get a question he answers without thinking or when he goes to refrigerator he just eats something that se is supposed to eat. Just directly. and i dont know it is possible. 

[Javfly33]

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

 

Yes, i dont know why he still writes or talks. It doesn’t match with what he says and does. Or he does everything  without any thinking process, such as when he get a question he answers without thinking or when he goes to refrigerator he just eats something that se is supposed to eat. Just directly. and i dont know it is possible. 

I think is possible, I had states of awareness where there is no thinking, but there is still intelligence to plan, talk, move, etc withouth no problem. I haven´t been able to maintain this ones for more than a few hours though. 

I would say that I would choose thoughts, but there would be no thinking. Thoughts wouldn´t be chosen by me, but rather "be chosen" automatically. I would be in the back seat as nothing as you said.

However I doubt Ralston is in this state 24/7. But maybe ïm wrong. Who knows! If its true, he´s a lucky motherfucker  

[James123]

9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I would say that I would choose thoughts, but there would be no thinking. Thoughts wouldn´t be chosen by me, but rather "be chosen" automatically. I would be in the back seat as nothing as you said.

But this is includes still thought process because you still aware of what’s going on. Or maybe you reach this state of awareness with psychedelics? Because when you really don’t think of anything, it feels like entire day deep sleep but when you need to take action or responsibility you are back of the control of the body again. Because thinking process starts again or occurs. 

[Javfly33]

8 minutes ago, James123 said:

But this is includes still thought process because you still aware of what’s going on. Or maybe you reach this state of awareness with psychedelics? Because when you really don’t think of anything, it feels like entire day deep sleep but when you need to take action or responsibility you are back of the control of the body again. Because thinking process starts again or occurs. 

I am not sure thoughts appear as they do in the normal waking state.

For example in my normal state right now I can have the thought of "I must prepare me dinner right now", and I can follow that thought and go to the kitchen, or maybe I can let it go if I dont think it´s so important.

In the state I was describing, that thought would arise too but it wouldn´t really materialize into words. It would just arise as a sort of intuition/intelligence. I would go to the kitchen, knowing why I am going to the kitchen, yet If you ask me if the thought "I must prepare me dinner right now" had arisen as in the first example, I would definetely say No. It´s weird. But you can totally function in this state. Although don´t expect to build the next Fortune 500 company on this state thought. I think it´s a state for poor planning and very simple life. 

Can´t remember if this state was triggered by psychedelics or not. I do remember it was an "after day" of an awakening it had happened the previous day. But couldn´t tell you if this awakening was because of psychedelic or sober. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, James123 said:

If he has no thought process how can it affect him? 

Psychedelics don't need a thought process. You could give psychedelics to a horse and it would still work.

[Forestluv]

Please keep in mind that when dosing animals, size does matter. A 50ug/kg LSD dose is a light trip for a mouse, yet 30X the dosage for humans. And this dose is enough to kill an elephant. R.I.P. Tusko. 

[Leo Gura]

Coming soon: Conner Murphy gives a thumbprint of LSD to his horse and rides it naked into the sunset in pursuit of infinite money and women. LIVE STREAM

[AtheisticNonduality]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics don't need a thought process. You could give psychedelics to a horse and it would still work.

Ketamine is literally horse tranquilizer.

[Leo Gura]

You ain't fully woke until your horse is as woke as you

[Javfly33]

8 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Ketamine is literally horse tranquilizer.

Ketamine is a hell of an interesting Psychedelic. Unfortunately it's not bening to the body as most classic Psychedelics. It can take a toll on the kidneys and bladder I've heard. A shame though since I had my first taste of Oneness on that one. ?

[James123]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics don't need a thought process. You could give psychedelics to a horse and it would still work.

It will work on the horse, because you have a thought process that as your personal opinion, horse is showing some type of strange behavior. But if you dont think there will be no differences. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

But if you dont think there will be no differences.

Hahahaha...

[SoonHei]

On 11/26/2020 at 0:59 PM, Leo Gura said:

This is simply false.

If Truth can be realized in your current state, it can be realized in other states as well. And you are always in some state. The whole point of spiritual practices is that they alter one's state of consciousness to states which are more conducive for realizing Truth because some states are better for truth-realization than others.

100%!

it's like an eye. sure, it cannot see itself.

but it can recognize it is already itself - looking out. 

OR it can recognize itself when faced with a mirror

both work.

and neither do too

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Ketamine is a hell of an interesting Psychedelic. Unfortunately it's not bening to the body as most classic Psychedelics. It can take a toll on the kidneys and bladder I've heard. A shame though since I had my first taste of Oneness on that one. ?

really? i've heard it's very boring