Peter Ralston on psychedelics

[tsuki]

Sorry for the clickbait title, I thought that it's worth discussing .
I suggest watching it twice because there are important details about the context at the very start.

Edited November 26, 2020 by tsuki

[Mafortu]

He has said this several times, as do other teachers I know of.

I think we can all agree that psychadelics point you into the right direction, but you still gotta walk there with meditation and self-inquiry. Otherwise you will mistake the psychedelic state for enlightenment which is a common trap. 

[fridjonk]

He ain't really wrong on that there's not a lot of evidence that psychedelics alone can push you towards permanent enlightenment. Yet he always dismisses them because of how "truth can't be realized through states of altered consciousness" which is utter nonsense. It's like saying you don't know what sex is like because you're not doing it right now, despite having done it before. 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

"truth can't be realized through states of altered consciousness"

This is simply false.

If Truth can be realized in your current state, it can be realized in other states as well. And you are always in some state. The whole point of spiritual practices is that they alter one's state of consciousness to states which are more conducive for realizing Truth because some states are better for truth-realization than others.

[Rilles]

Ralston basically acknowledges the validity of psychedelics in this video. 

"The Shaman needed to change something in Carlos brain because he didnt get it" Paraphrasing. I watched it this morning. 

So basically psychedelics opens your mind enough to recognize your true nature. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Rilles

[UnbornTao]

What? Isn’t the point of the truth that it is absolute? 

We’re taking relative which doesn’t influence the truth. That is, Truth has nothing to do with states. You can be happy or sad, blissful or mundane, high on caffeine or weed, but the only “requirement” is becoming conscious.

Others’ enlightenment experiences has occurred regardless of state.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Arzola

[fridjonk]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is simply false.

If Truth can be realized in your current state, it can be realized in other states as well. And you are always in some state. The whole point of spiritual practices is that they alter one's state of consciousness to states which are more conducive for realizing Truth because some states are better for truth-realization than others.

Exactly.

I don't get how he doesn't see this. 

Is it his self-bias towards psychedelics that's leading him to cover it up with this silly notion? 

Edited November 26, 2020 by fridjonk

[Corpus]

If you consider Peter Ralstons' path to his enlightenments then his stance makes perfect sense. A penchant for contemplation, exposure at a formative age to Far Eastern traditions and disciplines, a degree of instability of tenure (ie moving around quite a bit) were all formative for him. For others, including Carlos Castenada (if his books are believed), their upbringing solidifies thought patterns which require a more "aggressive" approach to crack the solidity and open up new possibilities.

An important thing to note is that in The Teachings of Don Juan the 3 drugs used were psilocybin (P Mexicana), mescaline via Peyote and tropane alkaloids via Datura species (?Inoxia/Stramonium). The latter is more deliriant than psychedelic when compared to the other two.

    

[Forestluv]

21 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

I don't get how he doesn't see this. 

Experiential bias and one’s construct of “enlightenment”.

I think a cleaner example would be Ram Dass. He genuinely devoted years of his life to use psychedelics for spiritual awakening. I think he tripped over 100 times during several years. He then quit substances and pursued awakening sober. He went to some really deep levels of spirituality, imo. Ram considered psychedelics to be a distraction in which the mind enters a illusory realm of peace, love, harmony and joy. The illusory experience is transient, so the mind and body keeps returning to psychedelics - which prevents them from taking an authentic path. 

There is some truth to this, yet it is contracted within Ram’s experiential bias and the construct he created based upon his memories. Within his experience and construct, he is 100% correct. Yet it is a contraction. There is a lot about psychedelics he didn’t experience. If he had, he would have spoken very differently. I know this to be true, because I’ve experienced what Ram missed. 

Yet this isn’t to say he is “wrong” or more limited than “me”. When I play a finite being, as I’m doing now, I’m limited within constraints of that finite nature. Thus, Ram experienced and was aware of facets that I am missing, because I’m finite. At a transhuman level, Peter, Ram and I are all One within infinity. Yet as separate human beings we each have insights others are missing. 

[UnbornTao]

 

 

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

Is it his self-bias towards psychedelics that's leading him to cover it up with this silly notion?

I think they simply don't work well on him.

He's not taking into account that psychedelics affect people very differently. And he's not experienced with modern psychedelics like 5-MeO-DMT or DMT.

[tsuki]

I was under the impression that Ralston was saying that he appreciates the use of psychedelics for the purpose of opening the mind.
Radical open mindedness is one of the basics of his teaching.

When he was talking that "it's not about the drugs", he was referring to Castenada's realization and the difference between his books. You guys are so touchy on the subject.

Edited November 26, 2020 by tsuki

[docs20]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is simply false.

If Truth can be realized in your current state, it can be realized in other states as well. And you are always in some state. The whole point of spiritual practices is that they alter one's state of consciousness to states which are more conducive for realizing Truth because some states are better for truth-realization than others.

Agreed. 

 

Yet still my mind, probably since my awakenings were not enough deep, this "why truth should be love for example, if it's experienced only within a certain state of consciousness, why giving it the advantage of being true as opposed to the consciousness state where it is all purely evil?

I mean all the states are true, cause truth is all there is. But then why love would more True with the capital T, if is just experienced within a certain state and not in others?

Edited November 26, 2020 by docs20

[fridjonk]

22 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

The illusory experience is transient, so the mind and body keeps returning to psychedelics - which prevents them from taking an authentic path.

I've felt this to a certain extent myself. It can be tough to "do the work" with great vigour when you experience pure god consciousness states with the assistance of psychedelics. Yet the imprinted understanding that one gets from these experiences feels so valuable on the path to awakening that it's hard to deny the impact they can have, and to dismiss them as most teachers in this work do is a great tragedy. 

11 minutes ago, tsuki said:

I was under the impression that Ralston was saying that he appreciates the use of psychedelics for the purpose of opening the mind.
Radical open mindedness is one of the basics of his teaching.

That's correct, but he still has his close-minded stance on their purpose for awakening. 

[Yali]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I think they simply don't work well on him.

He's not taking into account that psychedelics affect people very differently. And he's not experienced with modern psychedelics like 5-MeO-DMT or DMT.

Has he even tried psychedelics? How deep has he gone? @Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Yali said:

Has he even tried psychedelics? How deep has he gone? @Leo Gura

He has, but I don't think he got any profound insights or experiences from them, which is why he dismisses their power. He thinks all they do is change state.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Da77en said:

He mentioned, "put the fear of god in me". Maybe he had a bad trip and rationalized it by saying they don't lead to truth.

That is another problem.

Psychedelics must be used properly to get their benefits and power.

Taking a massive dose of LSD -- as he did (1000ug) -- is not a valid way to use psychedelics for consciousness work.

Yeah, 1000ug of LSD will do nothing but freak you out and make you never do psychedelics again. Daniel Ingram made the same mistake with his over-dose on Ayahausca.

[Rilles]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is another problem.

Psychedelics must be used properly to get their benefits and power.

Taking a massive dose of LSD -- as he did (1000ug) -- is not a valid way to use psychedelics for consciousness work.

Yeah, 1000ug of LSD will do nothing but freak you out and make you never do psychedelics again. Daniel Ingram made the same mistake with his over-dose on Ayahausca.

Where can I read about his trip? 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Where can I read about his trip? 

Not everything is written.

[tsuki]

I'm such a fanboy.