I understand Enlightenment. There is none for Me.

[Endangered-EGO]

That's what I just implicitly "understood":
And it is the first time I am going to say the same "semantic confusing shit" all the other people that understand it said.

I always saw what they told as a paradox, because it doesn't help to hear that "there is nothing you can do to awaken"

A big thank you to @Nahm that led me to recognise that I identified as the seeker. And I finally went meta.

So there it is:

The Seeker never awakens, the ego can only realise the paradox of the "path to enlightenment", by seeing that the more you try to solve that riddle the bigger it gets. The harder you try, the harder it gets. The paradox of the paradox is that there is nothing the "I" can do or not do. There is not even a possibility to allow everything that happens to happen, because that is something the ego does to try to not fight with itself. But trying not to fight with itself is trying to do or undo something(which is also do-ing).
So there is "not anything" you can do (or not-do) to either get to enlightenment. "Do nothing" is also not something you can NOT do, because it is just the opposite of the same coin. Meditation vs anti-meditation.

I had a lot of "awakenings", but those were not the enlightenment insight. Realising the paradox of enlightenment right now, has not in any way shape or form changed my perception on the world, or how I feel (except freedom).

"Now what can I do" is the thought that came up most often during the last few hours. Should I meditate now to get an awakening? Should I stop meditating? There is NO ANSWER. Not even do-nothing is the answer. There's not anything anyone can do in either way.
The ego/the thoughts are not creative in a free will kind of sense. They are reactive, reactive to everything else that occurs including itself.

There is no doing anything. It does so by itself. The seeker will continue to go the path, no matter how much it tries to do the opposite, it just fights with itself gets a few nice things a few bad things, but it can not get anywhere.
"I am going to stop meditating, because there is nothing I can do" - But stopping is doing something. 

The mind can never ever get you anywhere. If this is the first time you hear something like that, and you want realise the futility of the ego trying to resolve itself, try to contemplate thoughts, thinker, decider, do-er etc.

My mind now knows that there is nothing it can do or not do, or try to do or try not to do to get anywhere anytime. That's the paradox realisation I just had.

Now I heard that this is enlightenment? Apparently it is enlightenment as long as I don't forget it, (and there is also nothing I can do to remember or to forget it).
But I expected the nothingness to come up the second I realised that fully. Or heaven. Or at least ego death? I had those awakenings multiple times, without consciously realising, that the ego and seeker, were a strange loop of illusory self feeding identifications.

So, now what for me? I know I cannot stop, I cannot decide, it's kind of deterministic in nature because the mind is reactive. And the seeker wants awakenings, but also knows now that there is nothing it can do.

Is this enlightenment? Is this the realisation, that the thing inside of me always was enlightened?
Can I now start a cult and confuse people with this? (jk but it would be hilarious though) 

 

[Nahm]

@Endangered-EGO

Super awesome to hear. Sounds like a great breakthrough. On a cautionary note, if there is the question ‘if it’s it’, and or the proclamation that ‘this, or it, is it’, it is not it. That is a substantial recognition however, which I hope you’re feeling wonderful about. Look for the seeds of what used to be self referential thought stories, ‘catch em’ at the seed, and bring it to a rest before the seed is a tree.  

[Endangered-EGO]

@iameternallife Yes I believe meditation will be more "letting awareness do it's thing" for now


@Nahm I am sure it is not the absolute, it is not even the nothingness. 

By 'catch it', do you mean "be mindful and equanimous with it"?

I don't know what's going to happen, the only thing I can do is observe, before letting new thought patterns create themselves.

[Nahm]

@Endangered-EGO

Just as you’re really deeply discovering, the mind is infinitely sneaky....can’t even claim ‘it’ is not nothing or absolute. Maybe it is.  

Yes, catch it at the seed, or ‘at the root’, at supposition. Notice the activity of the mind as it arises, which is really to say the one thought arising now, and ‘bring it to a rest’. That takes some experience but it’ll ‘click’. As an analogy of sorts, point your finger up, and feel the release / relaxation of ‘letting go’, such that the finger simply goes from the tensing of the muscles involved in pointing up...so relaxed, or ‘sagging’ down. Feel the subtle relief of the letting go of the finger tension. Feel  that subtle relief in noticing the thought arising, and letting the mind relax, or ‘sag’, instead. 

[Endangered-EGO]

@iameternallife By that I mean, there is no controlling the awareness with ego. We talk about the same thing.

@Nahm Yes, thoughts are probably the thing I am the least mindful with. When I do that with the thought it kind of feels like I am forcefully stopping the thought, and not allowing it to vanish. I probably need to notice the beginning of the arising and not the thought mid-thought, correct?

[Nahm]

@Endangered-EGO

Point up, then let the finger naturally relax. It’s like that.  

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Endangered-EGO

Super awesome to hear. Sounds like a great breakthrough. On a cautionary note, if there is the question ‘if it’s it’, and or the proclamation that ‘this, or it, is it’, it is not it. 

Thats true but the problem is 99.99999% of people believe this is it. On another cautionary note.

My mum is 100% sure atheism is it.

And some on here are 100% sure no mind is it

Jeez maybe psychedelics are the only saviour, problem is they dont trust those experiences because they are hallucinations and too radical. If its too radical then it cant have weight 

Edited November 25, 2020 by electroBeam

[Nahm]

@electroBeam

If there are people, that is not it. ?

?

[electroBeam]

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@electroBeam

If there are people, that is not it. ?

?

isnt that spiritual bypassing

[Nahm]

@electroBeam

Ok, this could go on forever.  

[zeroISinfinity]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@electroBeam

Ok, this could go on forever.  

Hahahahahahahahahaha 

Love this at the end 

Hahahahahahahahahaha, Jed is funny polite guy. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[electroBeam]

21 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@electroBeam

Ok, this could go on forever.  

Too late

[Breakingthewall]

Sometimes I get it, and I think...it's simple, not a big thing. It's only that im not me, me is like an avatar. What happens if the avatar get broke? If I die, Where I'm going to go?Nowhere, many avatar are still working, if not that stone, everything, it's obvious. It's not magic, migthy or anything, it's clean, simple and empty. More simple or easy than be an ego. But after I start to think about it, and I get back to the ego, and really I don't remember exactly how was when I wasn't an ego, but I clearly remember there is not fear, because if I'm not me is the same what happens to me. It isn't like glory or wisdom , is only like detachment. Is that enlightened? I don't think so but it's a comfortable way of being. Enlightened should be a impossible state because how to be the conciousness and same time be limited in one person? 

[Nahm]

@Breakingthewall

There are no states. The consciousness is ‘the person’. 

@zeroISinfinity @electroBeam Hilarious. 

[zeroISinfinity]

Jed got serious. Oh c'mon. He can be he really can be. Sometimes intuition > uncoditional. Have to say that. 

 

[Nahm]

@zeroISinfinity

That’s trolling, you devil. You gotta beat around the bush and end up at serious. Can’t straight shot it. 

[Guest EmptyVase]

@Endangered-EGO What you wrote was exactly the same realization I had during a psilocybin trip (if you want to read the report, I can send you the thread). To my surprise, that "understanding" stayed with me.

Our ego minds really can't get a hold of paradox, it's just infinitely confusing. With the trip, I remember clearly, how there was a deeper awareness within, grinning at what I thought to be me. Grinning, how "I" desperately tried to "grasp" it. Ego wants to "hold" that understanding of paradox, but fails to do so. And as you said, as a result, it wants to know it even more and more and more, as it gets only more desperate and confused.. Especially when it comes to effort vs. non-effort, or meditation vs. no meditation (..and so on; you listed it yourself). Gotta love that thang and just "surrender to the process"!

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

There are no states. The consciousness is ‘the person’. 

What do you mean? That there are not two, the ego and the conciousness? Sure, but seems like are two, this is the problem. Is hard to realize that the ego really is nothing, because is like realize that you are nothing, takes time, over all because it's not a sustitution , the ego for the conciousness. The conciousness is not a "person". but I think I'm surrendering to it. It's the reality, hard or no hard. I'm finding the beauty in being "no one". With the enormous help of this forum

Edited November 26, 2020 by Breakingthewall

[Nahm]

28 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What do you mean? That there are not two, the ego and the conciousness?

Yes. On both accounts. 

 

[Someone here]

@Endangered-EGO welcome home . Although you never really left. 

There is no one to awaken. No one to get enlightenment. Haha. Enlightenment can't happen.. Who would it happen to ? ? There is nobody home. Unconditional freedom for no one ?

@VeganAwake