Inducing Awakenings With No Psychedelics

[cuteguy]

The problem with psychedelic awakenings, 5-MeO for example, is that they just throw the "I am the person" trick in the trash, and leave you to be as center-less Consciousness. Don't get me wrong, that is very valuable, but the psychedelic experience doesn't necessarily show you how the "person trick" is manufactured so that you can break though on your own.

When I sit down these days and investigate, it has become very obvious to me, that it's the person who is trying to get rid of the person, which is just hilarious ? And it seems to me that ALL one can do is watch that circus happen not believing a single thought. Not even the thought "I am Consciousness." Because as I learned, the thinking process is an incredible trickster.

Am I right? Or is there something more to this that I am missing?

[Grateful Dead]

28 minutes ago, cuteguy said:

but the psychedelic experience doesn't necessarily show you how the "person trick" is manufactured so that you can break though on your own

Wow! I think psychedelics are insanely powerful in showing how the "person trick" is manufactured. Lot's of growth can happen we you carefully observe what happens when the person comes back and how it works.

[cuteguy]

3 minutes ago, acidgoofy said:

Wow! I think psychedelics are insanely powerful in showing how the "person trick" is manufactured. Lot's of growth can happen we you carefully observe what happens when the person comes back and how it works.

You're right. They do show you, but not in a complete way where "the person trick" is completely exposed. If that were the case, you would stop falling for the trick.

[Grateful Dead]

32 minutes ago, cuteguy said:

If that were the case, you would stop falling for the trick.

Yeah but when you see it sober one time you probably will fall back also or not? I think if you do observe it often enough with psychedelics at some point it will stick (I hope). 

[cuteguy]

13 minutes ago, acidgoofy said:

Yeah but when you see it sober one time you probably will fall back also or not? I think if you do observe it often enough with psychedelics at some point it will stick (I hope). 

Yes, you're absolutely right. I had one sober awakening and fell for the trick again. It's just that with the sober one it seems like there is more confidence and more drive to investigate. As opposed to my psychedelic awakenings, where the mind keeps linking the awakening to the psychedelics, which used to make me lazy.

I agree with you; I think that with enough psychedelic trips it would stick. It probably doesn't matter which route one takes.

[Grateful Dead]

22 minutes ago, cuteguy said:

 where the mind keeps linking the awakening to the psychedelics, which used to make me lazy.

I noticed that problem as well!

Never had an awakening sober so I don't know how different it is to psychedelics but I always was interested in that.

All paths are so individual so it's hard to say what 'works' and what not.

[Javfly33]

Totally agree. Unfortunately sober awakenings also the ego comes back.

Having said that, if you manage to have deep awakenings withouth chemicals that probably will say you are more close to liberation than most people

[Corpus]

2 hours ago, cuteguy said:

The problem with psychedelic awakenings, 5-MeO for example, is that they just throw the "I am the person" trick in the trash, and leave you to be as center-less Consciousness. Don't get me wrong, that is very valuable, but the psychedelic experience doesn't necessarily show you how the "person trick" is manufactured so that you can break though on your own.

When I sit down these days and investigate, it has become very obvious to me, that it's the person who is trying to get rid of the person, which is just hilarious ? And it seems to me that ALL one can do is watch that circus happen not believing a single thought. Not even the thought "I am Consciousness." Because as I learned, the thinking process is an incredible trickster.

Am I right? Or is there something more to this that I am missing?

I reckon this is one of the limitations of psychedelics. However, this can be a useful springboard to a kind of investigation into the /"process"components which result into a "self" being formed, which, IMO/E, is kind of like a harmonic "humming" which gets reified when invested with attention.

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, cuteguy said:

they just throw the "I am the person" trick in the trash, and leave you to be as center-less Consciousness. Don't get me wrong, that is very valuable, but the psychedelic experience doesn't necessarily show you how the "person trick" is manufactured so that you can break though on your own.

Very true indeed. Observing what, how, and why phenomena appear, change, and vanish is mindful investigation. With a lot of patient, diligent practice, some amazing stuff can happen -- insight can be had, and it's far less fleeting than a psychedelic ego-dissolution experience.

[erik8lrl]

You can do both. Try to awaken without psychedelics first, then use psychedelics to ground the awakening. The depth of your trip equals the depth of your understanding of existence/self. Psychedelic can show you exactly how YOU work, but you must first be open to seeing it. Total awakening will leave you with no questions left, only clarity and beingness. 

[Moksha]

3 hours ago, cuteguy said:

And it seems to me that ALL one can do is watch that circus happen not believing a single thought.

Key insight here. This deep realization, that our thoughts cannot be satiated and will never truly bring us happiness, was the moment I decided to pull out the Jenga block supporting the precarious tower of my conditioned mind.

[Nahm]

@Corpus

Absolutely nailed it. 

[Corpus]

5 hours ago, cuteguy said:

.

When I sit down these days and investigate, it has become very obvious to me, that it's the person who is trying to get rid of the person, which is just hilarious ?.

The person (self) makes a wonderful show/pretence of trying to get rid of the person (self) but it is just a ruse, albeit convincing in its display. It is just a means of re-entrenching itself in a new costume.

5 hours ago, cuteguy said:

 And it seems to me that ALL one can do is watch that circus happen not believing a single thought. Not even the thought "I am Consciousness." Because as I learned, the thinking process is an incredible trickster.

Am I right? Or is there something more to this that I am missing?

Even the watching of the circus is more posturing of the self, appearing to deny its "produce" (the thoughts) and not investing them with belief. The self would "sell its granny" in order to ensure it persists. Choosing not to believe, whilst under psychedelics, is paradoxically adding to the mass of the self although on the face of it its activity claims to be performing a subtraction (the not-believing).

Beyond the bells and whistles of psychedelics, which is great, really getting the best out of them requires ancillary methods. I am doubtful that simply taking enough psychedelics will produce an enduring or grounded awakening without them.

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Corpus

Absolutely nailed it. 

Thanks!

[honesty]

Why take drugs? I thought this is a spiritual forum. I don't understand.

[Moksha]

2 minutes ago, honesty said:

Why take drugs? I thought this is a spiritual forum. I don't understand.

I have never tried psychedelics, and probably never will. I will let those that have speak to their experience, just realize it isn't mandatory, or even preferred, for many people.

[fridjonk]

7 minutes ago, honesty said:

Why take drugs? I thought this is a spiritual forum.

lol

[The0Self]

12 minutes ago, honesty said:

Why take drugs? I thought this is a spiritual forum. I don't understand.

Spirituality is knee-deep in experiences. Some of these experiences are had on drugs. I can neither recommend nor denounce them.

[Nahm]

47 minutes ago, honesty said:

Why take drugs? I thought this is a spiritual forum. I don't understand.

To know the distinction experientially, between psychedelics, and the more general label or category of ‘drugs’. From what I understand, many drugs, such as cocaine or heroin, are of an ‘escape’, or ‘forget my troubles’ nature. Psychedelics are arguably completely opposite. They essentially equal truth. They stand to reveal there’s no such thing as ‘my troubles’, and that one is making ‘troubles’ up. Literally. So, there’s no telling what an individuations experience will be, as it is the undoing or dissolving of the person, and reality. Each individuation created this personhood & idea of reality in their mind if you will.  If you are indeed into honesty, odds are you’ll find them interesting and revealing of a great many insights. I’d offer a ‘they are like’, but they are not like, say, a Pepsi, where I can say ‘it tastes a lot like coke’. They ‘are like’ undoing that you are appearing as a ‘universe’. They also, as truth if you will, are clarifying-healing. It is our delusions we trip on in life, it is only oneself which ‘holds oneself back’. They show oneself ‘that’. And much more, which the duality of words can not convey. It’s exactly the same as saying ‘that there is a screen, and someone typing to you, etc’ is an illusion. Saying that to you is surely not the least bit helpful, which points to the value of psychedelics. Only direct experience will do in this case. I can’t really say I suggest them, but then again I am your imagination, so it’s really up to you.