Is language really not helpful ?

[Cosmin_Visan]

Spiritual people say that you cannot use language to understand truth. But I will give you a weak and a strong question to see if language is really helpful or not.

Weak question) If you took psychedelics without watching any of Leo's videos, would you have had the same understanding of what you just experienced as you do now ?

Strong question) If you took psychedelics without having any language at all, like living alone in the forest until age 20, and then someone just gave you the psychedelics, would you have had the same understanding of what you just experienced as you do now ?

[LfcCharlie4]

@Cosmin_Visan Language is of course relatively helpful, it just won't give you the full picture or the experiential understandings. 

BUT, a theoretical / language understanding can help lay the foundations for such experiential understandings, and are in  most cases necessary. 

There ARE extreme cases- Eckhart Tolle & Ramana Maharshi for example- where spontaneous awakening occurred, but often this is followed by several years of intense integration / disorientation- Eckhart sat on a bench for 2 years & Ramana had to be force fed. 

It is false to assume language has no use, but it is also false to assume the finger is also the moon, the nuance lies in between these & eventually a time will come when the language (in regards to Non-Duality) becomes less & less useful & will, naturally, be dropped & may return to help other beings, but will not be necessary in your own life. 

You seem like you want to explore the theoretical side of Non-Duality, and there are plenty of books, videos, teachings out there that will allow you to do that. I linked several resources that you may find interesting in your other thread. 

[JosephKnecht]

1 hour ago, Cosmin_Visan said:

Weak question) If you took psychedelics without watching any of Leo's videos, would you have had the same understanding of what you just experienced as you do now ?

I took psychedelics before I found Leo's content. The 'mystical' experience is ineffable and undeniable, and when you are having the experience you simply 'know it' to be true. Whatever the mystical experience reveals to you is true because it is in your experience. But, after the "high" goes away and you come down back to reality, the experience is just a memory. Then you can use Leo's content to recontextualize your experience. If you don't have any preconceived notion of a "mystical" experience you will believe that you had lost your mind. 

So having knowledge is only useful to recontextualize your experience. 

1 hour ago, Cosmin_Visan said:

Strong question) If you took psychedelics without having any language at all, like living alone in the forest until age 20, and then someone just gave you the psychedelics, would you have had the same understanding of what you just experienced as you do now ?

Psychedelics try to give you an experience beyond concepts. 

All language is a symbolic representation of concepts. 

Realize that direct experience is stronger than understanding because all understanding relies on concepts and all concepts are ultimately imagined.

Therefore all understanding is ultimately false understanding. How can you understand that which you don't understand?

What you wish to do is to directly experience rather than understand.  

[Forestluv]

7 hours ago, Cosmin_Visan said:

Weak question) If you took psychedelics without watching any of Leo's videos, would you have had the same understanding of what you just experienced as you do now ?

No

7 hours ago, Cosmin_Visan said:

Strong question) If you took psychedelics without having any language at all, like living alone in the forest until age 20, and then someone just gave you the psychedelics, would you have had the same understanding of what you just experienced as you do now ?

No

[Osaid]

Language is helpful, but it is just a pointer to the actual experience. It is not the actual experience itself, and so it will always be lacking in that aspect.