Am I a sort of victim to my Karma?

[Flowerfaeiry]

I'm trying to figure out this Karma thing. Sometimes it just feels like I NEED to play out a particular drama in my life and work through that Karma. Its almost like I can't do anything about it. But I dont know if I'm taking a victim role in my life or what exactly is the deal here.

 

[No Self]

Karma is often portrayed as a parent/Santa Claus/Jesus who punishes or rewards based on who has been 'good'. This assumes that there is a universal agreement on what is 'good', which there isn't. Everything just is. However, it is more accurate to say that we experience natural consequences of actions.

No drama is really necessary, but when we are conditioned in childhood to act out certain patterns, it does take a lot of energy to correct them. The mind is always attracted to repeating what is familiar, even if it is hurtful to itself or others. Being conscious (aware) of this is a huge step forward. All the power is with you when it is not being give away to the mind.

[Nahm]

Explore non-drama. 

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

Explore non-drama. 

 

[SilentTears]

44 minutes ago, No Self said:

Karma is often portrayed as a parent/Santa Claus/Jesus who punishes or rewards based on who has been 'good'. This assumes that there is a universal agreement on what is 'good', which there isn't. Everything just is. However, it is more accurate to say that we experience natural consequences of actions.

No drama is really necessary, but when we are conditioned in childhood to act out certain patterns, it does take a lot of energy to correct them. The mind is always attracted to repeating what is familiar, even if it is hurtful to itself or others. Being conscious (aware) of this is a huge step forward. All the power is with you when it is not being give away to the mind.

Karma does exist, however its not like that. The intention you do things in. be it a happy intention, sad intention, mad intention. there is not a universal "good"(your right) that is why it works based off of intentions. Do you kill someone with love, or anger?

To poster: Tbh, I would not worry about it and just live your life how you want. dont worry about these law of universe. People should just live how they want. everything will be how it is. nothing will be out of isness. accept isness. that means living your life with purity, compassion, love etc because life just is. everything that happens is because of isness(conciseness) and that is truth.. someone who understands this say "Drama! Omg i love drama!" haha. I hope you understood, have fun and enjoy. you got this! Believe in yourself!  

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by SilentTears

[Someone here]

Yes exactly. This has been my experience as well. Everything is preordained before you came here. Everything is predetermined. Your character came here to this earth to do what it came here to do. I can assure you.. When you lift up your thumb like this and scratch your forehead.. This has been predetermined before you were even born. So is everything. Little or big. If your destiny is to get hit by a train ten years from now.. You will get hit by a train ten years from now. But you become free from karma by realizing that you are not the character to begin with . You are not the doer. You are not the body. This whole drama this whole show has absolutely nothing to do with you. For you are not the body.. Mind or world. You are just the witness. The witness is always detached and free. The character is ever-bound. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Someone here

[Preety_India]

I do believe in burning through  karma. Keyhole will have interesting perspectives on this. She has good knowledge on karma. 

I don't think that every moment in life is pre-determined by karma though. 

But yea these days I'm paying a lot of attention to the word karma. 

 

[Someone here]

@Keyhole there isn't any you to have free will. Not really. 

(brown bear mode activated lol). 

[Knowledge]

@Someone here Yet you somehow came to the right conclusion without any free will, yes makes sense.

[Preety_India]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Keyhole 

(brown bear mode activated lol). 

What does brown bear mode even mean? 

 

[mandyjw]

If you do a search for Nisargadatta Maharaj and karma he spoke about it a lot from different angles. 

"Karma, or destiny, is an expression of a beneficial law: the universal trend towards balance, harmony and unity. At every moment, whatever happens now, is for the best. It may appear painful and ugly, a suffering bitter and meaningless, yet considering the past and the future it is for the best, as the only way out of a disastrous situation."

Also,

All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God. Pure experience does not bind; experience caught between desire and fear is impure and creates karma. -Nisargadatta Maharaj

“Questioner: We were told about karma and reincarnation, evolution and Yoga, masters and disciples. What are we to do with all this knowledge?

Maharaj: Leave it all behind you. Forget it. Go forth, unburdened with ideas and beliefs. Abandon all verbal structures, all relative truth, all tangible objectives. The Absolute can be reached by absolute devotion only. Don't be half-hearted.

Q: I must begin with some absolute truth. Is there any?

M: Yes, there is, the feeling: 'I am'. Begin with that.”

 

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

What does brown bear mode even mean? 

 

?

18 minutes ago, Knowledge said:

@Someone here Yet you somehow came to the right conclusion without any free will, 

.

These words are meaningless. 

[lmfao]

@Flowerfaeiry I had an idiosyncratic insight the other day that any notion of sin or karma engenders fear. 

We carry unconscious guilt and shame over thinking in one way or another, we have "sinned". Which causes fear that "god" will strike us down in vengeance. The "sin" may be just a shame towards our existence. We believe we have sinned, and so we walk around being fearful of universe, because we're trying to be on guard from god's wrath. 

This manifests in hyper zero-sum game attitudes towards the world. Where nothing is free or easy, and everyone is always out to get you. 

--

Whatever beliefs me and you have accumulated and swept under the rug of "karma" aren't true. Maybe some advanced Yogi out there understands what it means in a non-fearful and loving way, but for us, we don't. So it's best discarding it as bullshit. 

---

The angry god in the old testament and Quran is so fascinating, feels like I'm seeing the unconscious parts of humanity brought to light. 

The mindset of someone in hell is that they are a sinner and are worried that they've killed god and are divorced from him, because they believe they negative karma or have sinned so much in the past, things are hopeless. 

 

In believing you have sinned, you invent and create that conceptual reality for yourself. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by lmfao

[mandyjw]

Just now, lmfao said:

@Flowerfaeiry I had an idiosyncratic insight the other day that any notion of sin or karma engenders fear. 

We carry unconscious guilt and shame over thinking in one way or another, we have "sinned". Which causes fear that "god" will strike us down in vengeance. The "sin" may be just a shame towards our existence. We believe we have sinned, and so we walk around being fearful of universe, because we're trying to be on guard from god's wrath. 

This manifests in hyper zero-sum game attitudes towards the world. Where nothing is free or easy, and everyone is always out to get you. 

--

Whatever beliefs me and you have accumulated and swept under the rug of "karma" aren't true. Maybe some advanced Yogi out there understands what it means in a non-fearful and loving way, but for us, we don't. So it's best discarding it as bullshit. 

When I was a kid I went ice skating with some older kids. My mom came down and checked out the pond and told us all not to cross this fallen log for a boundary line. Then she left. After a while we all skated over and looked over the log. Showing off, and being rebellious, I put one put over the log and immediately it went right through the ice. Whether it was that or other things combined, I never rebelled as a teenager. It was definitely fear driven.

The book Women Who Run With Wolves explores a theme where we are told that a certain room is off limits. We may explore everything, except that one room. Who is bad? The person who tells us something is off limits and says we must obey? Was Eve the first sinner by eating the apple or was God for saying that something was off limits? Or is it one and the same? 

 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Was Eve the first sinner by eating the apple or was God for saying that something was off limits?

Strange loop I must say!! 

 

[lmfao]

@mandyjw Nice childhood story. 

Adam and Eve is certainly very interesting. Good questions, I don't know. 

 

What my inquiry that day led to was wondering "Is fear desirable?" or "Should I abandon all fear?". Shouldn't I be fearful of things that can cause me physical harm? For example. If you're not careful when driving or walking near or road, you could die if you make a few wrong steps.

When fear is so deeply ingrained to this level, how can I hope to fully overcome it? 

----

About the Adam and Eve thing. Whilst the story was good for communicating what you wanted to say, you were also considering the story in of in itself, so I feel the need to examine that story. 

Yahweh, and the Bible in general, is a mish mash of a lot of things. He ranges from pure ignorance on one end to enlightenment on the other end, depending on what part of the bible you're in.

And so I don't readily take in mainstream interpretations of these biblical stories, since so much of it is humans projecting their shit onto "god". 

---

What if Eve never sinned in the first place but believes she sinned? What if reality was never dual but was believed to dual? What does this make us? What does that make this? 

 

What nonsensical crap am I even saying at this point. I feel like you could invent a Koan out of this. Or write a rumi poem. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by lmfao

[Moksha]

There is no individual free will, but Consciousness exercises free will through the individual.

[mandyjw]

13 minutes ago, lmfao said:

What my inquiry that day led to was wondering "Is fear desirable?" or "Should I abandon all fear?". Shouldn't I be fearful of things that can cause me physical harm? For example. If you're not careful when driving or walking near or road, you could die if you make a few wrong steps.

When fear is so deeply ingrained to this level, how can I hope to fully overcome it? 

 

I don't think that it's about that kind of fear really, unless you are suffering a lot by thinking about being in physical danger, then maybe it is. Fear and desire (as in focusing on not having what you want, the opposite of gratitude, not pure desire) create karma which feeds into the idea of being a good person. Concept of the self as a person means big trouble basically. lol So doing good because we want to see ourselves as good is a misunderstanding, and when we see the motives beyond it, we see that we are Good. 

But... we still want to do good. Like really, really, this is what I came here for, right? We can just split ourselves less, and align with the good that already is and not run from fear. Then we're not really doing anything, but everything gets done without inner resistance, but not necessarily without resistance. Like sometimes you have to knock an old building down to build something new. But if we see ourselves as a builder and a builder only, we would never get to build what wants to be built. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by mandyjw

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

I'm trying to figure out this Karma thing. Sometimes it just feels like I NEED to play out a particular drama in my life and work through that Karma. Its almost like I can't do anything about it. But I dont know if I'm taking a victim role in my life or what exactly is the deal here.

Non-drama. Non-figuring out. Non-do something about it. Non-identifying. Non-needy. Non-deal for you. Just this peace, and non-else. 

[GreenLight]

There are alot of theories and distortions we have about this spiritual law conceptually called karma. As someone pointed out, it is better to let go of this idea as we possibly never clearly find out on how it works.

However, i like this idea that karma is compassionate and neither rewards nor punishes. We may project our ancestral feelings of a vengeful god and feel like a victim to it but that does explain on how karma actually works. Some things are destined to us others are just merely permitted by karma. The same applies for things that can not happen to us. As karma can become a protector of some sort by not allowing situations to happen.

Maybe you are destined to "burn off" the karma/skandhas that you have and these dramatic situation are just merely permitted to happen in order to help you burn it off?

(There is this saying, for a Buddhist skandhas are for the Hindu is karma and probably for the new ager the LOA)

Hope you find the answers you are looking for.

 

(Shunyamurti recent video may help. Did watch this after posting. I guess synchronicity is part of the game.)

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by GreenLight