Can your MBTI change, really?

[The0Self]

It absolutely can change, but it seems it usually does not. I used to score as INTP 8 years ago, but after doing a shockingly huge amount of psychedelics and meditation, I now score solidly as INFP. And by a shockingly huge amount of psychedelics, I'm not even willing to admit just how much -- when I trip, I go to war.

[RichnNL]

From my understanding MBTI is often misunderstood, I am sure its possible to change your type but after your mid twenties I doubt it. I can assure you most of the times people are not typed right in the first place, doing a test online won't cut it and proper self typing will take months most people are incapable of self typing.

[integral]

The type has a clear genetic component, when you see the patterns clearly enough there is no doubt that it is unchangeable and born.

Most people expressing there opinions in this forum have no insight into the depth of there own ignorance. Knowing that you know nothing is a self journey, it cannot be taught.  

Edited December 4, 2020 by integral

[integral]

@The0Self 

These are the likely things that happend:

1) INFP being over aware of inferior extroverted thinking and there fore believing itself to be an INTP. 

2) INTP that developed extroverted feeling and now thinks there an INFP. 

The type never changed, its all just a misinterpretation of ones self development. 

Leo is still clearly an INTP even after all that psychedelic training. 

We are not talking about changing a type on a test, this just means mistype. It does not mean the type changed. There are genetic components that dictate a core aspect of the way the brain structures itself. Its born. 

I can type children by the age of 1. The core nuanced patterns are already visible. And of course im fully meta cognitively aware of the many tricks of self deception, including any confidence in what was just said. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by integral

[Matt23]

@integral  Am glad someone posted OPS stuff here. 

I didn't read the posts here, but if not already mentioned, I think it's also worth considering the following things when thinking about personality typology (and probably a lot more stuff as well).

• What a personality type even is.  As in, what is the concept/label of 'personality type' tracking in real life (assuming it's based of gathering data and not pure theoretics). 
• How:  what methods are used to gather the data in, and then make meaning and organize it?

Like, for me, it seems that a personality type is a concept that tries to generalize a person's most consistent behaviors, thoughts, and feelings over time (the longest amount of time, i.e., their whole life).  

[parizat]

@mmKay what kind of development

[mmKay]

5 hours ago, parizat said:

@mmKay what kind of development

Overcoming hyper-rationallity and decoming more in touch with feelings and intuition as my main operating system for day to day life rather than logically analizing every choice

[Guest SirVladimir]

Yes, of course your MBTI can change. It's a fun model to play around with — good for the memes, good for digesting with friends — but ultimately, I feel most people give it the same treatment as to a horoscope; and perhaps deservedly. The notion of choosing between cognitive functions is ludicrous in nature. While it may hold in your baseline consciousness, you can reach states that are so far beyond MBTI. This model is, if it weren't obvious, just a basic map of consciousness. It maps out a certain field — and perhaps accurately to a degree — but, please, understand this, all models behave like metaphors. They're metaphors for your innermost nature, and because your nature goes deeper than the roots of MBTI, you can shift and change your cognitive functions as well. So yes, your MBTI can change. Don't let it limit you. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by SirVladimir

[integral]

@SirVladimir Any examples of this happening? From what i can tell every enlightened guru still retains their born strengths and weaknesses. It just manifests in a different way. 

[Guest SirVladimir]

@integral I'd say that is because you are filtering them through the model. Enlightened gurus are so beyond the realm of MBTI that it's funny. Satori states are prime examples of this. The model creates the illusion that 'Introverted Feeling' and 'Extroverted Feeling' are separate; that they're two polar opposites and that you cannot be using both at the same time. Basically, the model creates a sense that YOU < MBTI, i.e. that you fall UNDER the cognitive functions. Therefore, the model's paradigm may hold up in our ordinary waking state, but, ironically, it's also the thing keeping one IN THAT ordinary waking state. These people go about living their lives thinking, "Oh, so that's what I am! An ENTP. It's so good to be finally understood!" Go on Reddit and write a post titled "You're all bullshitting yourself, you're treating your personalities like 1s and 0s when, in fact, you're all so much more." 

It's also interesting how MBTI correlates with Spiral Dynamics. Most older people coming from a Blue/Orange background fit the SJ group perfectly. It gets progressively harder to pigeon-hole a mind that operates on a larger scale.

[ItsNick]

MBTI is a very powerful personality model. But it's actually one of multiple interpretations of Carl Jung's theory of psychological types (sort of. it's actually a bit more complex than that.)

 

But my advice: Do not use online tests to determine your MBTI.

It's important to understand that your MBTI type is defined by the top four Cognitive Functions you naturally prefer using the most.

This "stack" of Cognitive Functions then determiens all those letters. It's not the other way around.

The problem with these online tests is that they focus only on those four letters, causing many people to get mistyped.

 

Here's a better way:

Learn what the different Cognitive Functions mean and take time to observe yourself.

Ask yourself questions such as: "How do I most often make decisions?" and "What mode of processing information do I use the most?" and "When do I feel most naturally myself?"

 

Now specifically on INFPs vs INTPs: INFPs and INTPs are similar in that they both use their secondary function Extraverted Intuition as way to generate new creative ideas etc. They also have the same tertiary function.

But they differ in their dominant mental process. INFPs mostly use Introverted Feeling and ask themselves if "something feels authentic" a lot. INTPs mostly use Introverted Thinking to build an internal framework of how the world works.

 

There's really no perfect way to define these Cognitive Functions. It's best just to observe yourself and notice how it works in you.

 

Either way it's not a perfect model. And it only considers how four out of the eight cognitive functions are preferred. And in reality there may be more than eight anyway.

 

And finally to answer your question: Can your MBTI change? Maybe.

It's unlikely to change much over your life. But there might some exceptions like trauma or mystical experiences.

And maybe psychedelics can too. Leo once shared this on his blog:

 

Here are some resources you can use to understand MBTI and Cognitive Functions better:

https://thoughtcatalog.com/heidi-priebe/2015/06/if-youre-confused-about-your-myers-briggs-personality-type-read-this-an-intro-to-cognitive-functions/

https://mbti-notes.tumblr.com/theory

 

[integral]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:05 PM, SirVladimir said:

@integral I'd say that is because you are filtering them through the model. Enlightened gurus are so beyond the realm of MBTI that it's funny. Satori states are prime examples of this. The model creates the illusion that 'Introverted Feeling' and 'Extroverted Feeling' are separate; that they're two polar opposites and that you cannot be using both at the same time. Basically, the model creates a sense that YOU < MBTI, i.e. that you fall UNDER the cognitive functions. Therefore, the model's paradigm may hold up in our ordinary waking state, but, ironically, it's also the thing keeping one IN THAT ordinary waking state. These people go about living their lives thinking, "Oh, so that's what I am! An ENTP. It's so good to be finally understood!" Go on Reddit and write a post titled "You're all bullshitting yourself, you're treating your personalities like 1s and 0s when, in fact, you're all so much more." 

It's also interesting how MBTI correlates with Spiral Dynamics. Most older people coming from a Blue/Orange background fit the SJ group perfectly. It gets progressively harder to pigeon-hole a mind that operates on a larger scale.

Makes sense, it could be a break down of a single state.  But this diversity makes alot of sense from a survival perspective. Brains structured in a way from birth where the path ways of least resistance and dopamine produce a specific default way of operating (INFP,INTP,INTJ...). Visibly a type looks like there type. Head structure, nose, eyes, there are genetic patterns. 

There is a kind of essence i get with each of these types that doesn't look like its being transcended in normal waking states. Leo is still an INTP strongly in his waking state. 

Satori states and child hood spiritual experiences are more likely to happen with Ni dominant personality types. 

Spiral dynamics would be a different axes. There is a Orange at every type and green at every type...  

[Guest SirVladimir]

@integral What's interesting is that Jung never really intended to label people. His solution to the problem of one-sidedness involved a fifth function, one that replaced S, N, T or F as the dominant function. Jung called it the transcendent function, as it transcends and unites the opposites.

More in this article; there's a headed section about it: https://steve.myers.co/can-psychological-type-be-a-barrier-to-individuation/

Given that nobody is a 'pure' type, the fact that even if you are Ti dominant you still have a bit of Te in you, and the transcendent function, I consider the 16 personalities 'starting points' in life. But like the rays of the sun, they all meet at one point.

6 hours ago, integral said:

Makes sense, it could be a break down of a single state.

I'd assume 'pouring your water' into another glass is learned and takes time. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by SirVladimir

[integral]

@SirVladimir Great article, the concept of taking energy from your dominant functions and putting it into your demons is a mbti common saying, but never heard the next step, that is transcending them.  

"In the example, the extraordinary strength of the child Superman is both a fact and a possibility – it represents the child’s latent abilities."

This sounds a lot like function combinations. Hard to see the different between what im currently doing with my opposites Ni and Se and what a transcended version of this would look like. Do you think you can provide examples of the difference? After studying a space and taking in all the Se facts, Ni is used to generate possibilities in the constraints of the system its focused on. The Ni possibilities are going to be narrowed by the facts, to remain practical and useful. Really cant tell the difference between this and transcendence. If i learn chess ill generate Ni possibilities in that context. 

The difference between Ni and Se is really just the questions your ask yourself. Ask a Ni question to do Ni, ask a Se question to do Se. When some questions are favored over others and these questions are operating subconsciously we call them cognitive functions. If we think of it this way its a lot easier to see how a transcendence would work. Its just the subconscious favoring of the opposite questions. Eventually they will be connect to each other in sequence. Se question then Ni question in sequence. Maybe this is transcendence? Looks like just a instrument that needs to be practiced. First step differentiation after childhoods subconscious question lottery. 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by integral

[Guest SirVladimir]

@integral I honestly don't know what I'd tell you. You deserve a better response, and I wish I could give it to you. I haven't studied the nuts and bolts of the model deeply enough to correct these slight nuances. What I can say for sure is that in higher consciousness, everything is both a fact and a possibility, both a sense and intuition. 

[ItsNick]

@SirVladimir Thank you for your share. I have read through the article you shared.

I find Jung's idea of the "transcendent function" very interesting. Makes me excited to learn more about it.

 

I'm especially interested in what the practical ramifications would be and how one would realistically develop it.

[AtheisticNonduality]

I changed from an INTJ to an INFJ.

[integral]

@AtheisticNonduality There is pretty much no way your auxiliary functions shifted from Te/Fi to Fe/Ti. Its a completely different stack. Its more likely your confusing Fe with Fi and Te with Ti. 

Interesting thing is INFJ can be pretty cold on the inside because of that Ti, but they would never show it, they strongly value social harmony. That Fe makes them appear loving on the surface.  

Edited April 8, 2021 by integral

[AtheisticNonduality]

1 hour ago, integral said:

@AtheisticNonduality There is pretty much no way your auxiliary functions shifted from Te/Fi to Fe/Ti. Its a completely different stack. Its more likely your confusing Fe with Fi and Te with Ti. 

Interesting thing is INFJ can be pretty cold on the inside because of that Ti, but they would never show it, they strongly value social harmony. That Fe makes them appear loving on the surface.  

So I am an INTeFiJ, except I'm also pretty Fe. What I meant was that when I took the test before, I'd get INTJ. Now I get INFJ.

[Wyeth]

I know people's whose have changed a lot, but I have been INFJ my whole life.