What limitations are not just beliefs?

[trenton]

In this topic I am curious about what the external obstacles could be for a person getting what they want.  The reasoning behind this is that if I think all limitations are self imposed for instance, then I could end up pushing against a wall.  I don't want to end up blaming myself for things that are beyond my control because I think that I am the obstacle.  This is how I could become a victim of myself which becomes very counterproductive.

Some examples I have in mind are medical conditions, natural disasters, natural forces, the current pandemic, and there are some citizens who have a real stake in what policies get passed locally or federally.

I am still responsible for my reactions to external problems, but if I find what serious limitations there are without falling for limiting beliefs, then that could take some pressure off of me in a more productive way.

[aurum]

@trenton

It's a good question, and I don't expect we'll solve it by the end of this thread either. I think we'll be asking that question for the rest of our lives.

Is going outside during Covid with a mask dangerous? Or are people who believe that falling into a limiting belief?

I've seen smart people argue both sides.

We are going to have to keep raising our consciousness and learning.

[oMarcos]

Some things are obvious real limitations, like we just know for sure that no one can survive a fall from the top of a skyscraper @trenton.

To be considered a real limitation we need a bias, but some bias are not very tangible and obvious, those bias can look messy, they can look different for everyone, so I would say that it's a matter of trying them with our Direct experience. For instance, if I eat a banana ice cream and feel my stomach sick, you cannot assume that the same thing will happen to you, but you will create a belief out of your fear that will happen the same thing with you, so you create a limitation on yourself based on direct experience of others.

Limitation Belief and Fact are not always holding hands together and they are mostly created based on fear.

Edited November 22, 2020 by oMarcos

[trenton]

I think this question is important because there could be problematic assumptions underlying spirituality and personal development.  For example, spiritual equality vs. spiritual inequality.  If we believe that we are all as capable as a sage with many mystical experiences, it can lead to frustration.  Leo mentioned that he finds it professionally dishonest to not mention that most people will never reach ego transcendence.  If the pattern continues for personal development, then there may be limits to how high one person is capable of developing themselves.  If personal development teaches us that they are limiting beliefs and we are responsible for our results, it may overlook genetics, neurochemistry, and other factors that could lead to people frustrating themselves.  

The paradox is that if I fail something once, I could try again.  If I fail something 10 times, I could try for the 11th time.  If I try 10,000 times and fail every time, I could still try again.  Although I find it admirable to have attitudes like "never give up" or "conquer your fears," realistically not everybody can be as good as a champion.  1000 people could be very passionate about becoming the President of the USA and study all their lives equally hard for all the same material.  There could be real genetic factors that allows one to perform better in studies, or simple luck for the one who wins.  Belief can leverage us to be more productive, but from my point of view it becomes destructive if I think I could have done better than I actually did.  Not everybody can be a champion.

I am trying to find a more mature approach that does not overstrain me.  This issue is a tricky thread in which I acknowledge some validity to a victim mindset from a narrow perspective, but I don't want to lock myself in that perspective.  "A victim is someone who thinks the external world is a bigger obstacle than he is to himself."  I am not sure how true this holds up if we account for all the physical material that makes up our brains and bodies.  Is the self-help industry biased in the regard that people would not study it if they did not believe they would gain anything?

[K VIL2]

@trenton great points! i can def learn from your mature approach of not overstraining.

 

that said, roads that lead to frustration can also lead to accomplishments. in the spiritual industry , there are many types that would rather lose it all. the beliefs, the life, the trauma, than gain anything.

[electroBeam]

the only limitation that's not a belief is the fact that there are no limitations.

Yep maximizing happiness is what you want, and maximizing happiness has to be done a certain way, what you want is a particular way of this dream unfolding, this may look like "limitation" but its not.

Edited November 25, 2020 by electroBeam

[The0Self]

A limitation that isn’t a belief is what is known as a “question.”