If The Purpose Of Life Is To Maximize Pleasure

[Frogfucius]

Shouldn't we all become heroin addicts? By all accounts, heroin is an explosion of pure pleasure. The amount of pleasure you could get in a month of using heroin might be a greater amount than anything else you could have been doing in a year.

This is a radical claim, and no, I'm not saying to do heroin. This is just my argument against the point of life being hedonism. Anyone who believes it is should be honest and intellectually admit that drugs could yield a greater amount of pleasure overall in life, than living a drug free life, and that it's an avenue that should be explored. If not, then what's the arbitrary limit on pleasure one should pursue? Pleasure has no moral  bounds.

[cetus]

@Frogfucius That's endless nightmare. Your joking, right?

[Frogfucius]

@cetus56 What do you mean?

[Frogfucius]

@Wormon Blatburm I know... But to hedonists, the purpose of life is pleasure. If pleasure could be measured, what if a few uses of heroin provides the most amount of measured pleasure you could achieve in your lifetime? Wouldn't that, theoretically, be the most desired pursuit for a hedonist? If not, then hedonists aren't living by their own principle.

My coworker told me a story about how he had a jury case about a well off man. He was in his 40s, an ex college track star, had a wife and kids, and had a business. A friend introduced him to crack. He wound up selling his business and everything he owned to support his crack addiction. His wife left him, and he wound up working a meager job and spent all his income on crack. He ended up robbing an old woman while high, and he accidentally killed her in the process (she fell and hit her head) and he got charged with manslaughter.

This got me thinking. Was he not living his purpose, as a hedonist?

Edited September 6, 2016 by Frogfucius

[Frogfucius]

@Wormon Blatburm Sustainability is an arbitrary restriction you're putting on maximizing pleasure. Nothing in life is sustainable, not even your consciousness.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Frogfucius

[Voytek]

You maximize pleasure through progression. You don't progress your mind, body, and soul by indulging in drugs and sitting around all day using up your dopamine. Volition is an innate and insatiable thing within us. However we can fulfill our will by progressing and making leaps. The will is our spiritual drive to enhance ourselves for our betterment. Even after enlightenment the will is ever stronger and it extends itself into wanting to help others. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Voytek

[Prabhaker]

Meditation brings you to the real experience, and drug gives you just a hallucination, a dream-like experience but very similar. To meditate is difficult. The drug is cheap. But the attraction for drugs is spiritual.

This is the reason that drugs have attracted man since the very beginning. And they have at least given him a temporary relief. Only few people tried meditation. And my own understanding is, these people also tried meditation because drugs at a point become useless. You become immune.

In the beginning they give you tremendous experiences, but soon they become almost part of your body chemistry. Then if you don’t take them you are in trouble. Your whole chemistry wants them. If you take them, you gain nothing. You go on increasing the doses.

I am against drugs because they can become addictive and they can prevent your spiritual growth. You can start thinking that you have achieved what you were seeking, and your hands are empty. You are just dreaming.

[MIARIVEL]

@Frogfucius I would do more research on heroin if that what your thinking of your next hobby. It is common sense that this drug has more negatives than it ever will a positive one.

[Frogfucius]

@MIA.RIVEL I personally would never do drugs, I know the dangers of hedonism, but that's beside the point.

The point of this topic is this: if the purpose of life is  pleasure, and if drugs maximize pleasure in ways that normal life never could, then a hedonistic person should be honest and admit drugs are the way to go. Placing arbitrary restrictions on sustainability or health are just that: arbitrary restrictions.

That's it. I'm not pushing for or against anything here, I personally have never taken any hard drugs and don't ever care to.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Frogfucius

[Voytek]

@Frogfucius Epicurus would disagree because drug use makes one dependent on the drug itself, thus restricting liberation of the soul and inducing more suffering.

[Consept]

I dont know why everyone is arguing with @Frogfucius, his point is that if you believe in a hedonistic lifestyle ie achieving the most amount of pleasure possible then the logical end would be something like heroin. 

This is an argument against hedonism as heroin has a massive downside and therefore hedonism as a philosophy doesnt work if heroin is the end goal 

[Neo]

You can't take the upside of something in isolation, you can't even take to booze without thinking if you're going to have a sore head and look like shite in morning.

[Saarah]

@Frogfucius i  suppose they would be living their purpose as a hedonist, just using a really shit method as there are better forms of pleasure 

Although there are negative consequences and addiction to cause suffering instead of pleasure, everything about pleasure seeking has a form of suffering attached to it anyway so that's besides the point 

[Dodo]

If we had good enough medicine to repair anything, there wouldnt be amy issue in taking heroin. Then heroin suddenly isnt bad. Until then, dont touch.

Also if we had better system so everyone lives in abundance of everything.

[Frogfucius]

4 hours ago, Consept said:

I dont know why everyone is arguing with @Frogfucius, his point is that if you believe in a hedonistic lifestyle ie achieving the most amount of pleasure possible then the logical end would be something like heroin. 

This is an argument against hedonism as heroin has a massive downside and therefore hedonism as a philosophy doesnt work if heroin is the end goal 

Thank you..yes, this is exactly my point. Let's put away all labels and ideas about different qualities of pleasure, and just look at the pleasure itself. Assume the chemical reaction is measurable in the brain, and heroin leads to the greatest chemical output. If one's hedonistic purpose is to maximize pleasure in life, then yes, heroin is the end goal. If one considers himself hedonistic, and yet is still against the idea of drug use for maximizing pleasure even if it yields the greatest chemical output for pleasure overall, isn't that contradictory? Why the arbitrary restriction on achieving pleasure?

Edited September 7, 2016 by Frogfucius

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Frogfucius said:

Thank you..yes, this is exactly my point. Let's put away all labels and ideas about different qualities of pleasure, and just look at the pleasure itself. Assume the chemical reaction is measurable in the brain, and heroin leads to the greatest chemical output. If one's hedonistic purpose is to maximize pleasure in life, then yes, heroin is the end goal. If one considers himself hedonistic, and yet is still against the idea of drug use for maximizing pleasure even if it yields the greatest chemical output for pleasure overall, isn't that contradictory? Why the arbitrary restriction on achieving pleasure?

Mayb because hedonists also want to minimise pain tho. Its simple, want only pleasure and for a long time. Heroin can be a part but not end goal, because it isnt sustainable and consistent. If we take a monks pleasure average and a drug addicts full life average, i think the monk will win by miles.

[Consept]

@Dodoster the whole point of hedonism is not to plan what gives the most pleasure over a period of time but just to live with complete abandon and do what gives the most pleasure at any given moment.

Ok lets take heroin out of the equation, if there was some drug with minimal negative side effects but which gave you maximum pleasure, would you take it? Keep in mind you would only ever want to do this drug

[cetus]

@Frogfucius Forget about the heroin for a moment. Where is it said that life's purpose is to maximize pleasure? Sure, pleasure is nice when it comes your way, but always fleeting at the same time. Needing to be in a constant state of experiencing pleasure is an endless trip. What brings pleasure today, will be same old same old tomorrow. Think about what is pleasure to you. Now think, how long would you appreciate the pleasure in that if you did it all the time and knew that tomorrow you would be doing it again and again the day after? Where is the pleasure in that? So just needing to sustain a state of pleasure is a never ending pursuit, no matter how it's attained or what it is. Seeking pleasure is a need of the hungry ego. Once you start feeding it, it's never satisfied and only wants more and more (exactly like heroin).  If it's the pleasure of power, sex, drugs, money, excitement ect. any of these can become an addiction and the satisfaction that they bring is only temporary. Life's purpose is to become free and liberated. That only happens through surrendering desire. When there is no desire, there is nothing that is needed. Nothing is lacking. That is fulfillment. That's not to say stop fulfilling your life. You go on living through intention. But intention without personal desire or attachment. Attachment to anything will eventually cause suffering.   * BTW-I watched a documentary a couple weeks ago on heroin addicts. Their life was a living hell! They couldn't even function or feel normally without their morning fix (forget pleasure). They started their day by going out on the street and trying to scrounge up enough money so they could pay for their first fix of the day. Of course they couldn't hold a job with steady income b-c their life was in shambles. Usually they would feel really sick because they were crashing. Mostly prostitution, stealing and selling, or pan handling, day in and day out 24/7. They asked one addict if he was hoping to get clean someday. He said  "heroin has me so bad, the least painful way to get out would be to end my life". Does that sound like pleasure to you!

[Dodo]

5 minutes ago, Consept said:

@Dodoster the whole point of hedonism is not to plan what gives the most pleasure over a period of time but just to live with complete abandon and do what gives the most pleasure at any given moment.

Ok lets take heroin out of the equation, if there was some drug with minimal negative side effects but which gave you maximum pleasure, would you take it? Keep in mind you would only ever want to do this drug

Wheres the problem in taking it and feeling awesome constantly. Sounds like buddah state of constant bliss. If i can sustain it i would

[Tron]

Fuck heroin