building muscle effectively/optimally

[levani]

i know this forum isn't about materialistic perceptions however it is a fitness thread so from experience / interesting research - how is it done ? i want to hear your view

[The0Self]

Full body (no splits)

5-15 reps per set, stopping just short of failure. 3 sets (after at least 2 warm up sets) for any exercise except deadlift (3 sets of heavy deadlifts 3 times a week will overwork your nervous system eventually...)

push, pull, legs

Example:

3 days a week, all weighted, increasing weight OR reps as often as you can.

chin ups 3x5-15, dips 3x5-15, deadlift 1x5-15

Do at least 2 ramped warm up sets (5 reps each) before each of those movements.

Protein is important but excess is not. 100g a day is usually perfect.

[levani]

@The0Self 100g per day is enough you think ? frank yang is pretty reliable in my experience and he does x 2.2 lbs per bw protein

 

i'm 97kg atm i weighed myself just niw and i actually struggle to do get 200g of protein in considering i do 50g from perform protein vulvar

[The0Self]

10 minutes ago, levani said:

@The0Self 100g per day is enough you think ? frank yang is pretty reliable in my experience and he does x 2.2 lbs per bw protein

 

i'm 97kg atm i weighed myself just niw and i actually struggle to do get 200g of protein in considering i do 50g from perform protein vulvar

For bodybuilding purposes you might get just a bit more protein synthesis from 1g protein / lb of bw a day (i.e. 180g for 180 lb), but more than that is just beyond wasteful.

Protein supplement companies are the only reason people think you need ridiculous amounts like 1.5g/lb -- every olympic weightlifter and any scientific study worth its salt disagrees with the supplement companies that stand to gain from young guys thinking that doing whatever they can to practically OD on protein will make them big and strong and ripped and a chick magnet... If you can believe it... lol.

Edited November 20, 2020 by The0Self

[levani]

@The0Self sorry bro i meant x1.2 per bw, it was a typo and yeah i feel you

[fridjonk]

1 hour ago, levani said:

i know this forum isn't about materialistic perceptions however it is a fitness thread so from experience / interesting research - how is it done ? i want to hear your view

Don't get too stuck in the bodybuilding style workouts. It's not really healthy and many of the moves are not natural on the body.

You can build a crazy amount of muscle by doing calisthenics, sprints, alongside some free form dumbell weights.

Weighted pullups etc. 

Since you're 97kg, these exercises will be great to tone down your bodyfat and show some of that muscle you already have. 

[levani]

@fridjonk i feel you ! I have been inclined towards these lately a lot

 

but backsquats are in my blood bro

[fridjonk]

16 minutes ago, levani said:

but backsquats are in my blood bro

?

Squats are a great exercise, you can definitely do them. I like front squats more personally, they strengthen your core so much, which I believe is the most important section of the body, both are great. 

[levani]

@fridjonk i always had problems balancing the bar at the front of the body somehow

[The0Self]

@levani Just make sure you do a push, a pull, and a legs, consistently, and you'll be good. Chins, Dips or Overhead Press, and Deadlift or back squat. Can sub bench press for dips but only if you're also doing overhead press. Benching alone will cause rotator cuff issues.

[andyjohnsonman]

look into gymnastic rings. Most of the exercises you do on there are very good for muscle and you can throw them up on tree branches at your convenience. No need to get a gym membership.

[levani]

@andyjohnsonman bro... this is the best idea i've heard in so long, this was actually mega MEGA helpful... thank you so much ! gonna go amazon and see if i can get some, i'm living int he south of england rn and there isn't many ourdoor gyms here unlike London so that would actually be quite sick to go out an throw it over a branch or something, i could do dips and pull ups and even some ab exercises on it or just youtube my way! Thanks again

[andyjohnsonman]

no worries mate i do it everyday check out a guy call trainingpal on youtube. Ive been doing it 4 times a week and my strength is decent - heres some ideas to get you going. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by andyjohnsonman

[andyjohnsonman]

Im also in England and do it often its really fun exercising in nature. Ge wooden rings they are better. I got these - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gravity-Fitness-wooden-Gymnastic-Rings/dp/B07FPJRPX4/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=5billion+rings&qid=1605998211&sr=8-4

 

best 35 pound ive ever spend. Once you get strong enough invest in a weighted belt and do weighted rings attatching bottles of water to you - 1 litre of water = 1kg

[levani]

@andyjohnsonman yes for dips and stuff i feel you, for pull ups i may need to start slower as I can barely do 10 clean ones in a row, controlled i mean, and i ordered exactly those btw ! haha

[The0Self]

@levani Remember to generally do what you can to stay in the 5-15 rep range (outside that range strays a bit too far from aesthetics and health), so figure out how to make it more difficult / add weight, once you're getting to like 14 reps.

Rings are fantastic.

OR, just keep rest periods limited and you can do stuff like 2,3,5,2,3,5,2,3 etc. This can be fun. However, the work sets' weight should pretty much always be such that it would get you to hit failure on rep 5-18 or so (except for warm up sets, of course) if you were to go all out (try to not go completely to failure; leave a rep in the tank to avoid neural redline; if you accidently go to failure occasionally, that's fine; consistency and progressive overload is key). Outside of that, you generally just want to do stuff like "more work, in any way you can, over a certain time period." Get creative, or do it the boring way. I like both.

Chins ups (palms facing you) are more efficient and safer/healthier than pull ups (palms facing forward). Dips + chins (or equivalent) are a complete workout, but only if legs / posterior chain are included somehow -- perhaps do jumps or sprints. You mentioned back squats but if you won't be going to a gym, you could do jumps or sprints. Or maybe deadlifts if you're willing to have a full size 45lb oly bar as part of at least 315lb (might need 405-495lb eventually) of total weight at home (that's what I have, and may start using again once I graduate and no longer find it as convenient to go to my university's gym between classes).

[AdamDiC]

Diet: Eat every 3 hours. Eat a lot of carbs, fats, and proteins. Eat healthy whole foods. Can supplement with Vegan protein powder, L-Glutamine, and Creatine. Just eat a fuck ton of food everyday.

Exercise: Lift heavy 3-5/week. 8-12 rep range is best. Go till failure, this is how you gain muscle lol. Just lift like a beast.

sleep well.

it's not hard you literally just do all the common sense things and in 2 months you'll be 10 pounds heavier.

[The0Self]

59 minutes ago, AdamDiC said:

Go till failure, this is how you gain muscle lol.

Sorry, but this is a pervasive (though understandable and seemingly logical) misconception. You want to balance fitness and fatigue -- e.g. going to failure and hitting failure at, say, 9.5 reps (attempted 10 and failed) instead of just stopping at 9 on a set (lets say it's your last set of attempted 3x10) adds a lot of extra fatigue and only a small amount of extra fitness, relative to that 9 rep set. Whereas nearly every rep before it was adding lots of fitness and very little fatigue. You could do an entire extra set of 8 or 9 and add a TON of fitness adaptation with that saved fatigue that you kept in the tank from simply stopping at 9 reps -- if you went to failure, you might only get 5-7 on the next set. That's not even the half of it though -- this fatigue cost really adds up over time. And this example was for someone who only went to failure on the last set of 10 -- imagine if they went to failure on all 3 sets, and how much fatigue they'd be sacrificing and getting way less fitness adaptation in the process!..

Anyway... Progressive overload is how you gain muscle. Going to failure all the time only works well if you're a beginner or not lifting very heavy, and even then you'd be better off without it. Lots of push/pull/legs movements with progressively heavier weight + consistency + eating enough food is key.

And the 8-12 rep range is generally thought to be the best for size but that's if you're already strong; 3 sets x 5 reps (after at least 2-3 warm up sets) works the fastest for most beginners to actually build the strength and mass needed for eventually building size. 5-15 is great for all-purposes/health.

Edited November 22, 2020 by The0Self

[levani]

 

@The0Self fully agree bro

you dont only dave ϟ but in the end you get more reps of the workout by not going to failure

 

going to failure is dumb - "logically" speakin

[The0Self]

@levani Exactly. It's all about balancing fitness and fatigue. And the more advanced you get, the more periodized the training must be for continued progress, because the amount of fatigue required to get any fitness gains gets progressively higher, and needs to be recovered from in progressively more extensive ways that allow one to hold onto their fitness gains while fatigue heals. At first, you can pretty much do anything, but some things are better than others.