Who wants to awaken?

[VeganAwake]

35 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@VeganAwake Yes  Experience is creation. It is imagination. It is intentional, misdirected attention. It loves doing it, always and infinitely.

❤ it's a wild and crazy Runaway Train

And language cannot do it justice and simultaneously the language is also the everything and nothing.

 

[Someone here]

14 hours ago, Claymoree said:

All of you are wrong, I am right!!!  

There is free will, but it is so free that you can't even see it. 

Free will is a total horseshit . If you pay attention to your experience you will notice that. I like this experiment.. Try to stop your thoughts and movements for just few seconds.. And notice how your body will carry on thinking and moving on its own. It can be a very scary experience. You have zero control over your body. I had a hard time with this realization few months ago. I thought Im losing my mind. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Someone here

[Moksha]

12 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

And language cannot do it justice and simultaneously the language is also the everything and nothing.

No form can express the ultimate beauty of the formless.

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I thought Im losing my mind. 

Exactly  Free will is infinitely creative, and is not bound to any form.

[Someone here]

@Moksha do you not sleep? Jk lol ?

[Moksha]

@Someone here I am timeless (and so are you) 

[nitramadas]

On 21/11/2020 at 3:40 PM, 73809 said:

Maybe for you. Not so for me. My desire to awaken comes from a combination of boredom and irritation.

edit: wait is this rude? Sorry I meant to share, not be rude

Umm, you do realize boredom and irritation are literally fear?

The present moment is pure existence.  If you're feeling bored, that's an egoic response to fear.  It mostly happens subconsciously and you aren't aware of this.

Why would you want to be rid of boredom?  What if you had to endure it for millions of years?  The desire to be rid of it is a desire for change.. I left a deduction in my initial post.

You really do have deduce, can't just stop at the first emotion.

Edited November 23, 2020 by nitramadas

[73809]

14 hours ago, nitramadas said:

Umm, you do realize boredom and irritation are literally fear?

The present moment is pure existence.  If you're feeling bored, that's an egoic response to fear.  It mostly happens subconsciously and you aren't aware of this.

Why would you want to be rid of boredom?  What if you had to endure it for millions of years?  The desire to be rid of it is a desire for change.. I left a deduction in my initial post.

You really do have deduce, can't just stop at the 

it’s kind of silly to argue for distinction in a nonduality forum, I don’t know what to say. But boredom is not a response to a threat and neither is irritation, and that’s what fear is. A response to threat. A lack of engagement or satisfaction is not a threat to the ego. I suspect you’d argue it is, tho, which is why I don’t really want to argue. I guess I have tho, lol. 

You know, I could see my incentive to disagree comes from fear. And that  makes me want to double down on my position. Fear is not present for me when I’m bored. Irritation and boredom are sisters, a response to dissatisfaction. A claim that fear is dissatisfaction would be a bastardizing off what fear is.

 But again this feels silly in a nonduality forum. Distinction is an illusion, in the end. Might as well say love is fear.

 

 Edit: boredom is like the incentive to play. boredom is a sister to playfulness, that’s not fear.

 Now that I’ve had my say, I’m curious rather than afraid. it’s additive. I’m afraid you’ll tell me I’m wrong, and I’m curious what your response will be. two different emotions.

 

 Edit2: ultimately I’m saying my desire to awaken stems from curiosity

Edit3:  one thing Leo said in another thread (I wrote it down) is this - “one thing you can bank on is this - all fear is illusion and falsehood “

and honestly this applies to emotions in general. Emotions are driving when we’re identified with them, and when we practice mindfulness emotions become fleeting and illusory. 
 

Perhaps the desire for enlightenment comes from suffering. You had that in your initial analysis. Ultimately suffering is the bigger picture of emotional experiences. There is suffering and there is bliss, two halves to the same coin. Practiced meditation leads to bliss and ego transcending. And an unpracticed mind is rife with emotion.

Edited November 24, 2020 by 73809

[PurpleTree]

On 21.11.2020 at 10:16 PM, VeganAwake said:

❤ The word experiences implies there's an experiencer.

The experiencer is the dream character in the dream story.

The universe doesn't necessarily experience anything.... it just IS (because the experiencer is unreal).

Have you ever seen a lion or hippopotamus have an aha moment?

❤

That's probably why the universe dreamt up "humans" to have those aha moments, ponder about the stars etc.

[VeganAwake]

16 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

That's probably why the universe dreamt up "humans" to have those aha moments, ponder about the stars etc.

Who knows ?

 

[nitramadas]

On 24/11/2020 at 11:38 AM, 73809 said:

it’s kind of silly to argue for distinction in a nonduality forum, I don’t know what to say. But boredom is not a response to a threat and neither is irritation, and that’s what fear is. A response to threat. A lack of engagement or satisfaction is not a threat to the ego. I suspect you’d argue it is, tho, which is why I don’t really want to argue. I guess I have tho, lol. 

You know, I could see my incentive to disagree comes from fear. And that  makes me want to double down on my position. Fear is not present for me when I’m bored. Irritation and boredom are sisters, a response to dissatisfaction. A claim that fear is dissatisfaction would be a bastardizing off what fear is.

 But again this feels silly in a nonduality forum. Distinction is an illusion, in the end. Might as well say love is fear.

 

 Edit: boredom is like the incentive to play. boredom is a sister to playfulness, that’s not fear.

 Now that I’ve had my say, I’m curious rather than afraid. it’s additive. I’m afraid you’ll tell me I’m wrong, and I’m curious what your response will be. two different emotions.

 

 Edit2: ultimately I’m saying my desire to awaken stems from curiosity

Edit3:  one thing Leo said in another thread (I wrote it down) is this - “one thing you can bank on is this - all fear is illusion and falsehood “

and honestly this applies to emotions in general. Emotions are driving when we’re identified with them, and when we practice mindfulness emotions become fleeting and illusory. 
 

Perhaps the desire for enlightenment comes from suffering. You had that in your initial analysis. Ultimately suffering is the bigger picture of emotional experiences. There is suffering and there is bliss, two halves to the same coin. Practiced meditation leads to bliss and ego transcending. And an unpracticed mind is rife with emotion.

I love to argue! 

Though, by "argue" I mean "debate in a friendly and civilized fashion"   : )

You refer to this as a "non-dual" forum.  That's what I assumed it was, too, when I joined.  It's actually ~50% about "stage Orange achieving success";  ~35% Green ideas about spirituality;  ~15% other.  Just pointing that out as it's easy to misunderstand this place when coming from videos on non-duality.  Actualized was (and maybe still is) a "get your ass to the gym!";  "If you're not rich, you've only got yourself to blame!" type of channel, originally.  This forum hasn't fundamentally changed since those days.

 

Quote

boredom is like the incentive to play. boredom is a sister to playfulness, that’s not fear.

It can be, in theory, but that only really applies to upper Turquoise.  Complete mastery of emotion and zero attachment to egoic desires are pre-requisites for what you describe.  Eg. if x makes you happy → someone gives you x → they take x away → you suffer.  If you eg. wanna play video games, that's fine, but if losing access to video games causes "boredom", that's not an expression of your happiness/excitement  for video games, that's an egoic pull towards satisfying some need.  

Unless you've already spent a good chunk of time in Turquoise, you'll be getting "needs" outside of your control.  You'll justify them as they arise at random with superficial logic, and say something like "boredom = incentive to play", thinking no more of it.  And why would you?  The ego gives every incentive to avoid going towards the pain..

Though, it's simple really.  Just ask yourself:  Would you be able to go without x, forever?  And I don't mean deciding: "I'll put some effort in for y months, and then I can relax" but:  "I can live like this, or under any other conditions for trillions of trillions of trillions of years". 

Would someone without fear, someone who can live unconditionally, have trouble with this? 

Would someone with conditions/requirements have trouble with this?

 

Enlightenment is kinda like receiving an unconditional offer to study what you always wanted at a top university, except, to be given an unconditional offer at the top "quality of life" institution, you have to be the one to give it to yourself, you're the only one who can.  If you, instead, say: "In life, I have to be entertained at all times; all my needs must be met.." You're only giving yourself a conditional offer, and, if you don't start doing well enough academically, well, I'm sure there are plenty of perfectly nice local trade schools for you to choose from..  So, sure, you don't have to be content with simply nothing, you can continue to have strict requirements for what's needed for you to be happy, but your quality of life will be severely limited in comparison to what it could be otherwise.   If you want the biggest selection of games to choose from, you're gonna need 'em quad-SLI® RTX™ 3090 Ti™s, you know what i'm sayin?  I mean, even if you don't wanna play Watchdogs™, having a good setup is always nice and opens up possibilities.  You could even say you can play.. unconditionally.  I sure do hope you know what I am saying  :  )   ..as I've already written too much..  wish people could give me more concise questions..

[Unseeking Seeker]

Accepting what is, on an as is where is basis, this (mind body) here knows not that it is in truth one with oneness.

Why negate this ignorance, even if it is a self imposed hypnotic stupor? Even glimpses of the truth do not end delusion, owing to attention oscillation. Unless the clear light is assimilated within mind-body consciousness in permanence, the theoretical or even sporadic experiential knowledge of oneness is of no avail.

We may continue to debate that the dreamed object (mind body) cannot awaken, for is is the dreamer (soul, spirit) who is the subject. However, unless subject and object merge seamlessly, we are still floundering about.

My take on this subject.

[abrakamowse]

14 hours ago, nitramadas said:

You could even say you can play.. unconditionally. 

But he will be only "thinking" that he is playing unconditionally... I think I am beginning to understand.

I have to read your post like 3 times to understand it... thanks!

[VeganAwake]

Nope...?