doing psychedelics but no insights

[Intraplanetary]

I've met this woman, from Brazil, she is over 30. On the spiral, she is ORANGE/GREEN. Before, she was doing LSD very week and also did 10 Ayahuasca ceremonies. 5 of them were very special in the proper retreats in Brazil.

I asked her what insights she has got from her trips... she didn't have much to say but I insisted to find out because I thought she must have some profound realisations - it's 10 Ayahuasca ceremonies! So I asked her again: maybe you understood something insightful about yourself, the reality, your mind, etc...? but she said she did not have any insights like this!!! 

I still find it hard to understand how it's possible? What do you guys think?

Psychedelics is not enough? What's missing? the intention to understand? the lack of understanding that it's actually possible to know deep truths?

[khalifa]

why not, it's just playing russian roulette with your brain after all

[Grateful Dead]

I have friends who tripped 50 times and dont have any insights..

You basically can distract yourself the whole trip

I think the level of development plays a huge role

 

[Jodistrict]

I have been told by a shaman that the plant medicines give you exactly what you need and what you deserve. It’s not a drug like aspirin where an effect happens automatically independent of your intentions.  That is part of what the strict diet is about.  To learn to sacrifice and make yourself worthy.  This doesn’t make sense if you are in the “drug” paradigm.

[Tim R]

I have no other explanation than this. If you don't want to learn anything from psychedelics, you won't. If you'd really wanna learn, you could even extract a decent amount of wisdom from a 1g mushroom trip.. 

Doing Ayahuasca and coming back with no insight at all? It's like... At least you should've noticed that reality is not some rigid, objective world "out there". 

20 hours ago, Intraplanetary said:

So I asked her again: maybe you understood something insightful about yourself, the reality, your mind, etc...? but she said she did not have any insights like this!!! 

Maybe she somehow misunderstood your question? 

[Gesundheit]

Maybe she was speechless. I've had times where I could not even express the depth of the insights I've been having, although all sober. In certain states of mind, the simple act of talking feels like the biggest hypocrisy in the world. And it's true, thought always betrays the essence. No words can communicate. Sometimes talking about wisdom feels like the exact opposite of wisdom. Sometimes it feels like the wisdom is the source of ego. It really gets strange at times.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Space]

@Intraplanetary Even though every person is 'wired' differently, I am surprised to hear she had literally nothing to show for her experiences. Why did she continue to do so many trips if she wasn't getting anything from them. 

I wonder how she would respond to 30mg of 5-MeO.

[TripleFly]

Because who cares about silly understandings, and explanations? it's only us seekers, that seek those insights. 

Some of us don't go for psychedelics to gain mental insight.

if you want to hear her insights, then you can ask her what she loves, and listen to how she speaks with love and truth. 

[Claymoree]

3 minutes ago, TripleFly said:

Because who cares about silly understandings, and explanations? it's only us seekers, that seek those insights. 

Some of us don't go for psychedelics to gain mental insight.

if you want to hear her insights, then you can ask her what she loves, and listen to how she speaks with love and truth. 

pretty much, sure you can get insights on your fears , dreams and so on, but you won't even consider it if you do not come with intention already built in you , knowingly , or unknowingly, your whole intention might be built around completely different experiences. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Claymoree

[Intraplanetary]

7 hours ago, Space said:

@Intraplanetary Even though every person is 'wired' differently, I am surprised to hear she had literally nothing to show for her experiences. Why did she continue to do so many trips if she wasn't getting anything from them. 

I wonder how she would respond to 30mg of 5-MeO.

I'm very surprised as well. When we talked I actually said: but the whole point in doing psychedelics is to understand about yourself? She looked at me clueless. I then added: it's about dissolving your ego and attachments. however, she didn't add anything on it.

I mentioned 5-meo but she didn't hear of it.
 

We live in the same house now so I'll have more chances to get to know her and maybe understand her perspective.

 

[Intraplanetary]

7 hours ago, TripleFly said:

Because who cares about silly understandings, and explanations? it's only us seekers, that seek those insights. 

Some of us don't go for psychedelics to gain mental insight.

if you want to hear her insights, then you can ask her what she loves, and listen to how she speaks with love and truth. 

Great idea about asking her what she loves - I'll. thanks! 

[Intraplanetary]

8 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Maybe she was speechless. I've had times where I could not even express the depth of the insights I've been having, although all sober. In certain states of mind, the simple act of talking feels like the biggest hypocrisy in the world. And it's true, thought always betrays the essence. No words can communicate. Sometimes talking about wisdom feels like the exact opposite of wisdom. Sometimes it feels like the wisdom is the source of ego. It really gets strange at times.

@Gesundheit I wouldn't say that she left speechless overwhelmed by the wisdom and that she couldn't even say a word. Quite the contrary, she was pretty blank and showed no inspiration for the topic. 

For example, when I meet people who can actually have had some spiritual experience and we start talking I see the spark and joy in their eyes. The same goes with me, I get excited to meet people like this which is very rare, unfortunately. It seems people are lacking deep understanding of anything.

However, I don't want to make conclusions here. I can't be sure about her experiences and understandings. In fact, the conversation wasn't very long anyway. But also because she showed no interest in it.

[Intraplanetary]

9 hours ago, Tim R said:

I have no other explanation than this. If you don't want to learn anything from psychedelics, you won't. If you'd really wanna learn, you could even extract a decent amount of wisdom from a 1g mushroom trip.. 

Doing Ayahuasca and coming back with no insight at all? It's like... At least you should've noticed that reality is not some rigid, objective world "out there". 

Maybe she somehow misunderstood your question? 

That's a great video! thanks for sharing. Mckenna is saying that people don't take trips seriously and don't pay attention because they give themselves permission to ignore is as 'just' a trip... it's just a trip it's not real anyway. Hence it presents people from seeing some truths in their psychedelics experices. 

Maybe she misunderstood the question. I can't be sure.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Intraplanetary

[Gesundheit]

46 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

@Gesundheit I wouldn't say that she left speechless overwhelmed by the wisdom and that she couldn't even say a word. Quite the contrary, she was pretty blank and showed no inspiration for the topic. 

For example, when I meet people who can actually have had some spiritual experience and we start talking I see the spark and joy in their eyes. The same goes with me, I get excited to meet people like this which is very rare, unfortunately. It seems people are lacking deep understanding of anything.

However, I don't want to make conclusions here. I can't be sure about her experiences and understandings. In fact, the conversation wasn't very long anyway. But also because she showed no interest in it.

The point is that maybe she transcended her spiritual ego. Maybe she's got to the point where wisdom stopped having any meaning or value to her. Consider that the main reason we talk about spirituality in the first place is ego. Maybe she's tamed the ox and got back home.

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Intraplanetary said:

When we talked I actually said: but the whole point in doing psychedelics is to understand about yourself? She looked at me clueless. I then added: it's about dissolving your ego and attachments. however, she didn't add anything on it.

She's probably enlightened, she doesn't have a egoic "self", that's why she looked clueless when you said about understanding "yourself"

[73809]

Recreational purposes. No enlightenment from that. Just tripping. 

[Jodistrict]

I  had a facilitator tell me that occasionally he gets a person who will have no reaction (that’s zero) to ayahuasca even after being given 3 or 4 cups.  He stops after that.  If you view aya as just a “drug”, it is hard to explain that.   It is a medicine, a plant teacher, a spirit.