I don't understand why people idolize Lenin, the Soviet Union, and sometimes Stalin

[nitramadas]

Just now, Opo said:

@nitramadas You have repressed orange. 

go on..

[nitramadas]

2 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Good lord, please don't go around diagnosing people you havent met (You've only met@nitramadas through this forum), with a model you also don't understand.

 

I don't mind people trying to figure me out, but I agree that Opo doesn't have a good enough understanding of the model to type me (or to type anyone else really).

Edited November 21, 2020 by nitramadas

[Opo]

3 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Good lord, please don't go around diagnosing people you havent met (You've only met@nitramadas through this forum), with a model you also don't understand.

 

I feel kinda lazy so I'll let it go. 

@nitramadas You can realize what I'm trying to say on your own. 

[nitramadas]

Just now, Opo said:

I feel kinda lazy so I'll let it go. 

@nitramadas You can realize what I'm trying to say on your own. 

I honestly don't.  As I've said, I've really tried to see how I'd fit as a lower stage, and I don't.  I'm a textbook Yellow-Turquoise™.  You have heard the phrase "transcend and include", yes?  All my Orange has been consumed by Yellow, or maybe "evolved" into yellow.

I do wonder what made you think I have "repressed Orange" though..

[abrakamowse]

What color I am?

[Lews Therin]

As i said, not up to me to saywhere you are, i will just sharing some information.

On another topic, your description of Green sounds way more like Blue than Green.

How can you list absolute morality when ir is literally the collor of relativism?

Overvaluing authority? You are describing a Blue person with progressist ideas.

5 hours ago, nitramadas said:

Believing in absolute morality, believing "bad" things are "bad" and that simply preventing people from doing them will fix problems, "Gurus" have infinite infallible wisdom, you must always be positive and never show ego, love will solve all the world's problems, orange is evil and must be stopped! —Green

There is no need to change anything, trying to change anything is egoistic, it's fine to be egoistic, speaking is limited and unneeded, understanding is limited and unneeded, "it is wise to know nothing", "love is all, everything else is a distraction", teaching almost exclusively through example —Turquoise

[nitramadas]

Should put the quote at the top, wasn't sure who you're referring to at first.

 

2 hours ago, Lews Therin said:

On another topic, your description of Green sounds way more like Blue than Green.

I realized it sounds a bit Blue at the time, but decided to post it anyway as it does describe Green very accurately and it's good to remind people that Green can look Blue at times.  This isn't even an edge-case or anything.  You see, Green tends to believe things like:  

• Veganism will save the world.
• We must protest if we want change!
• All drugs should be legal, it's your body, do what you want man!
• Companies are greedy and evil, if they only gave back to the public..
• If you support [insert company here] you're evil!
• If you're not far-left, you're dead to me.
• "My Online-Guru-Prahamahalashamaganayalamaya said this crystal will clear me of all toxins!  Isn't that cool!
• "I read a FaceBook post that this Ancient-Chinese-Himalayan-Dragon-Natural-Mineral-Mountain-Super-Tea will open my Chakras!"
• "Hey, guys, wanna go 5G-mast hunting this weekend?  I hear them waves block your chakras!"

 

2 hours ago, Lews Therin said:

How can you list absolute morality when ir is literally the collor of relativism?

.. what?

 

 

ir = infra red?     "infra red is literally the color of relativism?"

(Why do I even bother with these low-effort posts..)

 

2 hours ago, Lews Therin said:

Overvaluing authority? You are describing a Blue person with progressist ideas.

Yeah, like I said above.  Overly credulous.  Believe it or not, even I used to be Green back in the day..   : )

You guy are the most ★~(◠﹏◕✿) stage.

[nitramadas]

2 hours ago, abrakamowse said:

What color I am?

I'm sure you already know.  I've probably already said, or maybe not.. don't recall.

[Thewritersunion]

If you’re going to continue this please continue to into the messages. 

[Axiomatic]

5 hours ago, Thewritersunion said:

If you’re going to continue this please continue to into the messages. 

fr man this shit got way off topic. I honestly don't care at all what color any of these people are...

[Lews Therin]

10 hours ago, nitramadas said:

I realized it sounds a bit Blue at the time, but decided to post it anyway as it does describe Green very accurately and it's good to remind people that Green can look Blue at times.  This isn't even an edge-case or anything.  You see, Green tends to believe things like:  

• Veganism will save the world.
• We must protest if we want change!
• All drugs should be legal, it's your body, do what you want man!
• Companies are greedy and evil, if they only gave back to the public..
• If you support [insert company here] you're evil!
• If you're not far-left, you're dead to me.
• "My Online-Guru-Prahamahalashamaganayalamaya said this crystal will clear me of all toxins!  Isn't that cool!
• "I read a FaceBook post that this Ancient-Chinese-Himalayan-Dragon-Natural-Mineral-Mountain-Super-Tea will open my Chakras!"
• "Hey, guys, wanna go 5G-mast hunting this weekend?  I hear them waves block your chakras!"

 

Veganism will save the world = Dogmatic belief = Blue

We must protest if we want change! = A Green can believe that, but not per se a Green trait

All drugs should be legal, it's your body, do what you want man! = More like Orange than Green

Companies are greedy and evil, if they only gave back to the public.. = greedy yes, evil no, the second sentence is not green at all

If you support [insert company here] you're evil! = Very Blue

If you're not far-left, you're dead to me. = Clearly a Blue thing, with far-left ideology, nothing to do with Green

"My Online-Guru-Prahamahalashamaganayalamaya said this crystal will clear me of all toxins!  Isn't that cool! = that is someone who hasn't embodied Orange, again, nothing to do with Green.

"I read a FaceBook post that this Ancient-Chinese-Himalayan-Dragon-Natural-Mineral-Mountain-Super-Tea will open my Chakras!" Could be said by someone Green, but believing Facebook (the content of the sentence) has nothing to do with Green

"Hey, guys, wanna go 5G-mast hunting this weekend?  I hear them waves block your chakras!" = Where do you come up with these????

 

10 hours ago, nitramadas said:

Yeah, like I said above.  Overly credulous.  Believe it or not, even I used to be Green back in the day..   : )

Then why are you failing at every turn to describe it?

 

10 hours ago, nitramadas said:

.. what?

 

 

ir = infra red?     "infra red is literally the color of relativism?"

(Why do I even bother with these low-effort posts..)

Next to R is the T "when IT is literally the collor of relativism"

C'mon, you made absolutelly no effort to understand the sentence, wich was pretty obvious anyway, how can you call my post low effort?? We were talking about Green...

 

19 hours ago, nitramadas said:

"speaking is limited and unneeded", "love is all, everything else is a distraction", —Turquoise

That is so far you best description of Green, except for some reason you call it turquoise...

[Heart of Space]

I'm pretty sure most people idealize Marx, because socialism itself was born out of his economic philosophy.  Marx viewed society as a progression towards the abolishment of socioeconomic classes.  There's a lot of really good idea's there.  I believe that Marx's ideas actually came way too early and that he was ahead of his time.  

Capitalism > Socialism > Communism

A big part of economic philosophy and the success in its application is beholden to the development of the people within that economic system.  Which is why its important that certain idea's are only applied in a society that is properly developed and ready for them.  

 

Edit:  Man, some of you guys are so hung up on spiral dynamics you should start a religion around it.  Why can't you just have a conversation rather than get hung up on categorizing absolutely everything to a color?  

@nitramadas A quick glance at your post history shows that pretty much every post you make mentions SD.  Which color/stage gets so obsessed and hung up on a conceptual framework that literally everything they say is rooted in said conceptual framework?  Just curious.  

Your posts are like the quintessential example of someone who uses SD to act as if the content of your posts are of some sort of higher tier caliber.  It's literally the SD version of holier than thou.  

Edited November 21, 2020 by Heart of Space

[No Self]

3 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

A big part of economic philosophy and the success in its application is beholden to the development of the people within that economic system. 

This is at the crux of the issue. We are solving problems at the wrong level and it will never work.

Capitalism would work in an advanced society, as the 'haves' would be motivated to care for the less fortunate.

Communism would work because leaders would care for the people, and people for each other.

[Yog]

@Axiomatic 

Because they won the war, naturally all the blame and demonization went to Hitler. He is the perfect scapegoat.
History is written by the victors.

[DocWatts]

Late to the party here, but a genuine question : how different is someone who idolizes Lenin/Trotsky that different from an American who idolizes 18th Century Aristocrats, many of which owned Slaves, and happen to share at least some culpability for a genocide that killed millions of indigenous people?

Understand that I'm not setting up a false equivalency between the American Founding Fathers and the founders of the Soviet Union, but I often see a lot of black and white thinking on this topic, with people either praising or condemning without taking into account the full historical context.

The reason I bring this up is I'll often hear Vaush or someone else on the socialist end of the online Left casually drop a reference to the writings of Lenin/Mao, and knowing the crimes those people have committed, kind of recoil in the same way I would as if someone dropped a casual Mein Kampf reference to support a point, and I'm a bit conflicted as to whether that's a justified reaction or not.

Edited November 23, 2020 by DocWatts

[nitramadas]

On 21/11/2020 at 5:47 PM, Lews Therin said:

Veganism will save the world = Dogmatic belief = Blue

Have you not seen the video on Green?  Most of your points make it seem like you haven't studied SD much.

You think Greens are incapable of self-deception and falling for beliefs?

You think SJWs / anti-SJWs are Blue?  What about the "Black Lives Matter" thing?  The "veganism movement" falls under the same category.

Quote

We must protest if we want change! = A Green can believe that, but not per se a Green trait

Yes it is.  It doesn't get any more basic than this.  Green is one and only stage which sees injustice, becomes convinced of its perspective that this is wrong, and thinks fighting back will fix the issue.  

You see, Yellow would be far more interested in finding the root cause of the issue.

Turquoise wouldn't even see injustice as an issue.

Orange would not care enough.

Blue would typically side with the greater power, e.g. do nothing, or say the police/politicians will take care of it.

 

Quote

All drugs should be legal, it's your body, do what you want man! = More like Orange than Green

No, this is about human rights.  Are you telling me you think Orange is more anti-authority and pro-freedom than Green?  

Orange wants to play within the system to win.  Green wants to tear the system down, even if it hurts itself by doing so.

 

Quote

Companies are greedy and evil, if they only gave back to the public.. = greedy yes, evil no, the second sentence is not green at all

Yes it is.  You think Green sees both sides?  Sees the full picture?  If it did it wouldn't be Green, it would be Yellow.  Green would, for example, want people to stop using planes (for environmental reasons); would slow the world economy down to a fraction in a misguided attempt to slow climate change; would travel in a yacht rather than a plane to make a point; etc. 

Whereas Yellow would, instead, see that maybe we need to pollute even more! ..if that means faster technological progress which results in us having real solutions sooner.  Yellow thinks strategically and understands the importance of balance.  Green just gets angry at what it perceives to be the problem and demonizes it.  

Yes, Greta Thunberg is the perfect example of Green.

 

Quote

If you support [insert company here] you're evil! = Very Blue

..wtf

On top of all I said above, an interest in capitalism and companies starts at Orange.  When you imagine an ordinary, Blue primary school teacher, you see someone who's up to date with the latest business news?  Knows the difference between Apple/Google/Microsoft?  Knows who their CEOs are?  Apple does all it can to attract Greens, because they can.  Greens know what Apple does, so Apple makes an effort for them.  Apple makes no special effort for Blue though, as Blue doesn't know shit.  Blue only cares that it's popular.  That's it. 

(Orange cares about what they get from Apple and how their products may elevate their social status.)

 

Quote

If you're not far-left, you're dead to me. = Clearly a Blue thing, with far-left ideology, nothing to do with Green

 If you're gonna challenge me, please try a little harder.. this is getting boring.

Are you saying equality, sharing, service to the community, etc. are "Clearly a Blue thing"?

 

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of every stage, I'm afraid..

Blue is all about hierarchy and sacrificing yourself for it.  If you don't do your part, you're just seen as a "loser" by Blue.  Blue is like a kid that's been yelled at by a parent for "running outside" and now feels "bad", and when he later sees another kid getting yelled at for the same thing says: "haha you got yelled at by mom!".  Blue doesn't care about the reasons behind things or if they're just or not, solely "are you following the rules?".  To Blue, simply following the rules is a big achievement worthy of respect.  That is, generally, their motivation. 

Green wouldn't see a homeless person as a loser who's worthless to society, it would see him as someone in need.  Anyone who disrespects people in need would be seen as a heartless, awful human being.

Make sense now?

Quote

"My Online-Guru-Prahamahalashamaganayalamaya said this crystal will clear me of all toxins!  Isn't that cool! = that is someone who hasn't embodied Orange, again, nothing to do with Green.

Oh yeah.. cause Blue is known for its obsession with yoga, crystals, meditation, chakras, kundalini, awakening, enlightenment, etc. 

 

Just type in "energy healing" on YouTube and listed to all those Blues.. 

 

Quote

"I read a FaceBook post that this Ancient-Chinese-Himalayan-Dragon-Natural-Mineral-Mountain-Super-Tea will open my Chakras!" Could be said by someone Green, but believing Facebook (the content of the sentence) has nothing to do with Green

.. Yeah Green totally doesn't care about spiritual branding and is very analytical about all claims from spiritual gurus.  I couldn't imagine a Green being told that Pranayama will raise their kundalini and them just doing Pranayama as instructed, without any further research.  Greens always get to the bottom of the issue and find the fundamental mechanisms at play.  lol, what's even the point of Yellow?

 

Quote

"Hey, guys, wanna go 5G-mast hunting this weekend?  I hear them waves block your chakras!" = Where do you come up with these????

..the news.

 

Quote

Then why are you failing at every turn to describe it?

Well, I hope this was educational for you, it's as if you only discovered SD no more than a week ago.  Please do a bare minimum amount of research before starting a debate.  This was not worth my time.

 

Quote

"speaking is limited and unneeded", "love is all, everything else is a distraction", —Turquoise

That is so far you best description of Green, except for some reason you call it turquoise...

lol, no.  Since you've probably never heard this before:  "One of the most common traps people make in SD is seeing themselves as 2 stages above where they actually are".

Even if a Green doesn't see himself as 2 stages higher, he will be blind to Turquoise and believe it's the same as Green, just "more sparkly" or "more mystical" or "just an older Green".

 

On 21/11/2020 at 7:19 PM, Heart of Space said:

 

@nitramadas Man, some of you guys are so hung up on spiral dynamics you should start a religion around it.  Why can't you just have a conversation rather than get hung up on categorizing absolutely everything to a color?  

This is the SD forum, after all.  The one and only in existence (.. + an Orange "success" forum).

 

Quote

A quick glance at your post history shows that pretty much every post you make mentions SD

Whatever people ask me about is what I speak.  See, you're doing it now too..

 

On 21/11/2020 at 7:19 PM, Heart of Space said:

Your posts are like the quintessential example of someone who uses SD to act as if the content of your posts are of some sort of higher tier caliber.  It's literally the SD version of holier than thou.  

That's because there is no dedicated Tier 2 board on here.  If I write from T2, it's gonna sound weird to T1.  I prefer writing from T2.  I've explained in more depth in other threads, if you need a thorough explanation I need a concise question.

 

On 21/11/2020 at 10:27 PM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

You know...

Marx's dialectical historical materialism does resemble spiral dynamics...

hint hint hint...

Yep, making all this 100% relevant.

[GreenLight]