No self is dual?

[from chaos into self]

I don’t get no self. The idea that I’m not this, not that. If I am not, then I am separate, and dual. Me and reality as two. 
 

I say I am reality. I am this, I am that. Isn’t that true? 

[Moksha]

Ultimately, there is no I.

[from chaos into self]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Ultimately, there is no I.

So you’re saying I don’t exist? That makes no sense to me. I clearly exist, this is like the only thing I’m sure of. It’s  prior to “I think therefore I am”. I just am.

[Moksha]

Consciousness is all there is. When you strip away everything about "you" that is impermanent, the only thing left is Consciousness. 

[from chaos into self]

@Moksha I’m conscious of the cars as they drive by. Is that consciousness me? I say it is. The car may be impermanent, but the conscious experience is something that never leaves. It takes form of a car, the form may be impermanent but the conscious experience remains despite taking different form. That experience is me, no? Ultimately I am this. This experience of the world. I strip away everything but I’m left with this view of the world. Every form it takes is mine, my view. I exist as consciousness, but I am separate from other views. Like yours.

 

Yes Ultimately the true self is all things, no separation, separation is illusion, but this experience I live is what is me in the small way. Maybe not two, but I’m ultimately responsible for this body and these experiences. If I don’t care for my life no one else will. I know that It’s said I’m everything I’m god, but I just don’t see it that way. I’m not going to believe in something like that. Until I have an experience myself, I will assume I’m this experience. Permanent ad this, despite the impermanence of form, consciousness is constant and it’s my view of the world. I am self. I am the car driving by, the conscious experience of it. Form is impermanent but I am every form I take.

 

 Sorry this post is so long.

[Moksha]

@from chaos into self Consciousness created you for a reason. Of course you should honor you. There has not been, and never will be, another form like you. Consciousness is dreaming through you.

The impermanence of personality doesn't devalue it. To the contrary, its uniqueness is what makes it special. When the personality isn't opaque, Consciousness shines through it, and the colors it casts are beautiful.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Moksha

[cuteguy]

"I am this" means "I am this because it is made out OF ME"

"I am not this" means "I am not this because it is only an appearance IN ME"

So they are both true.

[Byun Sean]

all language is inherently dualistic

[from chaos into self]

@Moksha @cuteguy thanks!

 

43 minutes ago, Byun Sean said:

all language is inherently dualistic

but is noself separate from self? I guess talking about it is dual. But if nonduality is true, duality is not separate from it. Separation is the same thing as god, no? God is everything, even separation and unconsciousness. Maybe this is a silly question; noself is ultimately not exclusive of self. Not this not that means transcending it. You are it but you also are not.

[arlin]

55 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

You are it but you also are not.

it's the recognition that there nver was somebody who made decisions, thought the thoughts and moved the body.

It just happened all on it's own and then the seeking energy comes and takes responsability for it.

[from chaos into self]

7 minutes ago, arlin said:

it's the recognition that there nver was somebody who made decisions, thought the thoughts and moved the body.

It just happened all on it's own and then the seeking energy comes and takes responsability for it.

Even so I have this limited experience of it happening. I’m conscious of my life and not yours or Leo’s. It may be a dream and even deterministic and nondual but there remains this bundle of fun that is me. Self exists. I exist. It is an illusion of separation; yet I am responsible for its survival. Maybe that locks me into ego; so be it if it does.

But that doesn’t really answer my question on if noself is dual. I’m sure I can find an answer despite my paradigm. Is noself dual because noself is to say I’m not this, not that? That implies a separation from all things, that the existence of I is different than the dream. I don’t get it, maybe I’ma fool. I don’t know

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by from chaos into self

[Moksha]

@from chaos into self If the wave crests in the ocean, does that imply an ultimate duality?

[from chaos into self]

Just now, Moksha said:

@from chaos into self If the wave crests in the ocean, does that imply an ultimate duality?

I don’t understand what this example has to do with noself. Are you saying noself is recognizing that I’m the ocean and not the wave?

[arlin]

5 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

Even so I have this limited experience of it happening. I’m conscious of my life and not yours or Leo’s. It may be a dream and even deterministic and nondual but there remains this bundle of fun that is me.

yes of course.

 

6 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

Self exists. I exist. It is an illusion of separation; yet I am responsible for its survival. Maybe that locks me into ego; so be it if it does.

it survives, but nobody holds on to it. The body will protect itself, or try to survive the seeking energy then comes and claims it like it's "me" that does it. Same things for choices.

 

I think what you are trying to say is that you don't experience being one with the universe or something.

That's right, noself does not automatically mean that you will become at union, that's another realization.

 

[arlin]

with the falling away of the self, this automatically is seen more clearly for what it is.

Thoughts are thoughts, body is a body. Choices are happening.

But the one who interpreted those, cling unto those etc.. it seen it's just another sensation.

When it happened here it was hell.

Don't go for enlightenment in life  

[Moksha]

7 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

I don’t understand what this example has to do with noself. Are you saying noself is recognizing that I’m the ocean and not the wave?

Noself is the ocean, and wave is its expression.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Moksha

[arlin]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Noself is the ocean, and wave is its expression.

No, noself does no automatically imply that you merge with reality.

At leas, here was not this way. I think that is also a matter of how deep you go .

Edited November 19, 2020 by arlin

[Moksha]

@arlin Noself is all there is. Just because it expresses doesn't mean there is anything real other than it.

[arlin]

@Moksha Yeah we are getting confused. I was just talking about the fact that, if you loose your sense of self does not mean you experience your body with the outside as 1, for example.

 

 

[Moksha]

1 minute ago, arlin said:

@Moksha Yeah we are getting confused. I was just talking about the fact that, if you loose your sense of self does not mean you experience your body with the outside as 1, for example.

Gotcha. And I mostly agree  There are a few, like The Buddha, who seem to have realized, completely free from perspective. He picked up the thin shawl of his personality in order to come back, but he appears to have directly experienced eternal reality, through the infinite lens of eternal reality.