better to fail than to succeed sometimes?

[Bird Larry]

Socrates once said to a foolish disciple of his, "Why are you crying?" "Because, of all the work you did, they kill you even when you are a good man, that is the problem!" Socrates answered, "Why are you crying, fool! Then do you want me to die as a bad man?!"

Shutter island Leo DiCaprio, "I wonder, whether it is better to live as a monster, or die as a good man?" 

Batman, "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain"

"I would rather betray the world than let the world betray me" A Chinese novel called, three kingdoms, an antagonist says it. 

Since i was a child (my father always had this philosophy), if a good man were to be trampled upon and spit on, it is better to be a cruel man and trample on other people. 

That carried on until I watched Leo talk about a few things of enlightenment etc. and he made me think whether this is true or not. I am still caught in this dilemma. 

Even though it is beautiful to hear it is better to die as a good man than live as a monster, or to fail as a good man than succeed as a cruel man, the only problem is is that we can see so much good men be trampled upon and destroyed and see so little good men be admired and loved. 

How do you carry out these philosophies? And will you trample on others to succeed or would you rather be spit on and fail? 

[Nahm]

When you no longer judge people you begin to see the true beauty of your own innocence.

[KaRzual]

Well every fail can be seen as a succes. Just give it a time and fresh perspective  

[tricksntraps]

Failure is the best way to learn. Trying is better than not doing anything at all. 

Sometimes you need to take a break as well and then try again when you have the energy.

[mmKay]

That's pretty much a false dichotomy. There is "victory / loss" only if you frame it that way.

Get outside of that pradigm and zoom out to see the bigger picture. 

You can see  things happening simply as learning oportunities, as practice, as "experience", etc. 

Imagine this: you walking to the bathroom from the couch in your living room, and you think the following: 

OKAY, IF I DON'T MAKE IT TO THE BATHROOM IN EXACTLY 8 LARGE STEPS I LOST. 

See how you created that win/ loss frame out of thin air? This applies pretty much to everything, to various degrees. 

Let me quote you this from Leo's old " Personal development blueprint".

52 minutes ago, tricksntraps said:

False Choices, AKA: fallacy of either-or, false dichotomyf

The either-or fallacy tends to creep into your life and limit your thinking about your future:

Should I have kids or advance my career? Should I be a CEO or launch my own business? Should I major in biology or chemistry? Should I write a book about X or a book about Y?

The answer is, you can do both. Your life is long enough that you will do many big things, far more than you realize right now.

You have time to have kids, and advance your job, and double-major, and start a business, and write several books, and much more.

Stop framing it in your mind as an either-or decision. Some decisions truly are either-or, but very few them. Because you put so much value on the immediate future, your mind tricks you into not seeing how much room and time you have to do everything you want to do.

The question you should really be asking yourself is, Which one first?

Most important decisions seem like they are final: if you choose option A over option B, then option B is gone forever.

But this is rarely the case. Even big decisions, like marriage, starting a business, or moving over seas, can be reversed or play themselves out and come to a natural end, giving you another chance to pursue the second option.

Example: if you decide to major in Engineering, you will still have the option 10 years later to go back to school and major in Chemistry, after Engineering has played itself out.

If you want two things badly enough that you are having a hard time deciding between them, perhaps you should do both. In which case, your decision now becomes about which one to do first. This is an easier decision because you aren't mentally killing off the other possibility, you are just prioritizing it.

Not exctly on point but you will probably still get a lot of value. 

[No Self]

22 hours ago, Bird Larry said:

How do you carry out these philosophies? And will you trample on others to succeed or would you rather be spit on and fail? 

Regarding this question specifically, I'm on the side of 'fail'. Jesus 'failed'.

If this lifetime were the entirety of all existence, and if there were no natural consequences for harming others, maybe another approach might apply. But I'd rather be 'unsuccessful' in this lifetime and not have to go through future burdens. We are supposed to learn that love matters more than other stuff. This is a common theme in near-death studies.

[smurf88]

On 11/19/2020 at 9:44 AM, Bird Larry said:

How do you carry out these philosophies? And will you trample on others to succeed or would you rather be spit on and fail? 

I don't equate winning in politics with being evil and losing in politics with being good. When you're socializing with others, politics is a game you're playing, whether you like it or not. And it may be in the best interest of everyone involved for you to win rather than lose, that is if you are capable of being a better leader than your opponent.

Things like sympathy and kindness are good, but do not mistake them for being a doormat.

[tricksntraps]

If you are "kind" to expect something in return, it is not kindness but manipulation

It's very hard to be selfless and much easier to be a devil tyrant.  
 

[No Self]

35 minutes ago, tricksntraps said:

If you are "kind" to expect something in return, it is not kindness but manipulation

True. But what if you find that 'kindness' is your true nature?

[Bird Larry]

On 11/20/2020 at 10:21 PM, No Self said:

This is a common theme in near-death studies.

May I ask what the near death studies showed? 

[Megan Alecia]

There's no person, dead or alive, who never failed in their life. You might as well learn something from yours. 

[Bird Larry]

@tricksntraps well... what i am specifically saying is that what if you dont expect anything in return  but you dont expect people to spit on you and try to hurt you either for you doing a deed. That is the real question. And that happens a lot believe it or not. Or am i deluded?

[No Self]

5 hours ago, Bird Larry said:

May I ask what the near death studies showed? 

Of course.

There is a thing called a 'life review' in which an individual's entire life is experienced, including the first-person perspective of other beings who are affected. 

Some examples:

Carter Mills saw himself when he was a child and killed a mother bird with a sling shot. At the time, he was so proud of that shot; but during his life review, he felt the pain that the mother bird's babies went through when they starved to death.

Reinee Pasarow described how the most positive thing she did was to give special attention to a not so lovable boy at a summer camp so that he would know he was loved. During the review, she said this act of kindness was more important from her viewpoint of expanded awareness than if she had been president of the United States or the queen of England.

During her life review, [Laurelynn Martin] relived an event when she was five years old and teased another girl to the point of tears. Laurelynn then felt exactly what the other girl was feeling. Laurelynn realized how the girl needed love, nurturing and forgiveness. Laurelynn then felt a love for this child that was so deep and tender, it was like the love between a mother and child. She realized that by hurting another person, she was only hurting [herself]. It was an experience oneness with everyone.

Further reading here. And here.

[Bird Larry]

@No Self i watched this show of a certain minister of a kingdom trying to his last breath to restore the dream his previous lord had, which was to restors ths han kingdom. The minister went on 5 expeditions to the north waging war after war against what they both thought were tryanical countries ruling china. I know this was very idealogical, but the last scene when the minister failed all attempts to succeed in war, crying and dying with his last breath (but he is a very admired minister throughout all of asia not only china) made me feel that maybe failing aint bad apparently. 

My god, while i was writing you replied. I was just curious, if it is the fear of karmic revenge you want to love? Because you wrote you dont want to suffer 'future burdens'.... 

[No Self]

3 minutes ago, Bird Larry said:

if it is the fear of karmic revenge you want to love?

A simple way to put it: don't hit your finger with a hammer, because it will hurt. Don't hit anybody else's finger with a hammer, because it will hurt - but with a delay. This is a very practical consequence of 'we are all one'.

[Bird Larry]

@No Self what if it won't hurt after a delay? There are many savages who did not meet any grave consequences for what they did. 

[No Self]

On 11/23/2020 at 1:50 AM, Bird Larry said:

@No Self what if it won't hurt after a delay? There are many savages who did not meet any grave consequences for what they did. 

How do you know? Of course the consequences won't necessarily happen within the limited time period we call a lifetime. If there were no such consequences, they would be stuck in kindergarten forever.

[Byun Sean]

Notice you are deciding what counts as success and failure.

They are completely relative to how you look at a situation.

 

What we are calling as failure culturally is simply that we haven't gotten what we want yet with our current amount of

attempts.

We call success getting what we want in life which may take one attempt or thousands. 

 

If you really want something bad enough, you will eventually either find a way to get it or give up along the way because you don't want it bad enough.

 

You can realize Success with a Capital S where you realize you cannot fail because failure was always just a projection of the mind.

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Byun Sean