The root of suffering IS not desire

[krockerman]

Let’s say you desire Ice cream

do you suffer before you are given it? Well let’s look at this

you might get excited before you are given it. Maybe a little impatient but if you ask most people they will tell you that they enjoy that craveing

Then you are given it and it fills you with pleasure. So buddah is wrong that desire = suffering

unfulfilled desire = suffering

you suffer if you crave ice cream but are not given it. 

If you remove your desire to eat ice cream you will remove the suffering of not getting it when you would usually crave it and the negative health consequences that come from it. 

But it is not desire in itself that causes suffering 

 

[PurpleTree]

how about attachment ?

[krockerman]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

how about attachment ?

I would say it’s how you attachment to things that matter

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, krockerman said:

I would say it’s how you attachment to things that matter

what's the difference? i'm not sure i understand your wording

[Nahm]

14 minutes ago, krockerman said:

If you remove your desire

Got some simple steps for how one goes about this? 

[krockerman]

8 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Got some simple steps for how one goes about this? 

Many people use mediation practices for this

[krockerman]

14 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

what's the difference? i'm not sure i understand your wording

For example if you have an healthy attachment to your toys. It will give you excitment to come home after school. Your mom tells you that you will be able to play with the toys after you have done your homework. This give you motivation 

unhealthy attachment would be skipping school or skipping homework to play with toys

[Nahm]

9 minutes ago, krockerman said:

Many people use mediation practices for this

Unpack that a bit? 

How does meditation ‘remove desire’?

[Moksha]

Desire is the source of suffering, because anything that can be desired will never deliver enduring happiness. We chase after transience, as if it it has the power to make us whole. It is insane to seek permanence in the impermanent. Consciousness is the end of suffering, because it is infinitely and always abundant.

[Beginner Mind]

The seeking energy is indeed suffering.  When the seeking energy within you has died, there is peace.

[krockerman]

17 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Desire is the source of suffering, because anything that can be desired will never deliver enduring happiness. We chase after transience, as if it it has the power to make us whole. It is insane to seek permanence in the impermanent. Consciousness is the end of suffering, because it is infinitely and always abundant.

If this is true that must mean that Reality itself = suffering

Because everything in reality is impermanent 

Whatever it is enlightenment, Ice cream or consciousness 

They are all impermanent

[krockerman]

18 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

The seeking energy is indeed suffering.  When the seeking energy within you has died, there is peace.

No matter what you do you will always come back to seeking. You can’t escape it. Everything is impermanent

[Moksha]

@krockerman Just the opposite  Only reality is permanent. Consciousness is all there is. Everything else is the dream. When you realize your-self as no-self, you no longer suffer.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Moksha

[Mvrs]

1 hour ago, krockerman said:

Let’s say you desire Ice cream

do you suffer before you are given it? Well let’s look at this

you might get excited before you are given it. Maybe a little impatient but if you ask most people they will tell you that they enjoy that craveing

Then you are given it and it fills you with pleasure. So buddah is wrong that desire = suffering

unfulfilled desire = suffering

you suffer if you crave ice cream but are not given it. 

If you remove your desire to eat ice cream you will remove the suffering of not getting it when you would usually crave it and the negative health consequences that come from it. 

But it is not desire in itself that causes suffering 

 

The root of suffering IS the misinterpretation of ISing

[Breakingthewall]

the root of suffering is that you move away from your true nature, and what keeps you away is not desire, it is the concept

[Beginner Mind]

19 minutes ago, krockerman said:

No matter what you do you will always come back to seeking. You can’t escape it. Everything is impermanent

You can't escape natural biological impulses to eat, drink, sleep, etc., but it's definitely possible for egoic seeking to dissolve.

[hyruga]

Ice cream is too weak an object to represent desire. 

Let say someone ask you to pick one out of the two: Ice cream or $50 dollar note. Which will you pick?

Do you desire the $50 note more?

What if now you are told to pick between $50 and a gold bar worth $20000?

Now between a gold bar and a lovely wife?

Now between a lovely wife and born and living in very poor state in say Africa or living as middle class in America?

Now what do you choose between $10 mil dollars, dying today vs living frugally for 100 years.

Do you desire health?

Maybe your definition of desire and Buddha's definition of desire are different so you see things differently.

[krockerman]

1 minute ago, Beginner Mind said:

You can't escape natural biological impulses to eat, drink, sleep, etc., but it's definitely possible for egoic seeking to dissolve.

Even if you dissolve egoic seeking it is like everything else it is impermanent. It’s gonna come back

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Got some simple steps for how one goes about this? 

I'm looking for some simple steps for opposing purposes.

[krockerman]

20 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@krockerman Just the opposite  Only reality is permanent. Consciousness is all there is. Everything else is the dream. When you realize your-self as no-self, you no longer suffer.

Even if you awake to no-self you are gonna go back to sleep. It’s just how reality works. every being in reality has at some point realized no self yet most are far from awake now. You see the problem