Self Inquiry

[Raptorsin7]

What is the purpose of self inquiry?

I can recognize that when the question, who am I, is asked in thought, there is awareness of that thought which is itself not a thought. After that point, I'm left with pressure/tension in the head and other sensations of the body. 

How deep is the inquiry supposed to go? I find myself getting bored/distracted after repeatedly asking who am I, and it feels like later on during the sits I'm not as attentive to what's occurring as during the earlier portions of my sit.

For anyone who awakened through self inquiry, can you give a description of how the process unfolded for you.

[Guru Fat Bastard]

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I can recognize that when the question, who am I, is asked in thought, there is awareness of that thought which is itself not a thought

So that would mean that,what "I" is, is not a thought but that which is aware of the thought. Once the question is asked by mind it's done. Any answer would be just another thought from the same mind that asked the question.

"I" is formless,still,silent,empty awareness. "I" believes/thinks it is the mind,but the question reveals that,that is false by the gap of silence and disappearance of the mind created "character" or "I-thought", after the question is asked.
I- Consciousness/Awareness, is no-thing (i.e.,not a thing,thought,sound or perceivable object). Mind only knows objects (thoughts,images feelings,sensations,perceptions).
Mind is thought. If there is no thought,there is no mind. If there is no mind,and no thought,there is no time and space.
When there is no mind,there is no self,or false "I" or "person", which are objects, (i.e.,thought,name and form)  in the mind.
What "I" or You is , is not a personal or constructed mental self, but that which is aware of the constructed "I-person" or "self" . And "That" which is aware, has no name,shape,form,identity yet is the ground reality from which all that is or can be perceived,and perception itself, arises.
"Self abidance" if you've heard the term is to rest/abide in That. The always here and now  unborn ground of Being,Aware Consciousness Presence.

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Guru Fat Bastard

[Adamq8]

@Guru Fat Bastard beatiful explanation!

[Raptorsin7]

@Guru Fat Bastard Okay. But how do I move from this understanding to a meaningful shift in my experience. I've had experiences of perception shifts that resulted from awareness centering on sensations in the head, until I let go to a point where the entire frame or lens of reality shifted.

The insight into formless etc has only ever led to a meaningful change in my experience on LSD, but i want to have that same shift without psychs now. What exactly do I do with this understanding to facilitate actual change in my life. 

I want the peace, bliss, love, happiness etc that is supposed to come from this recognition.

[Guru Fat Bastard]

Unlike psych's which are pretty much instantaneous, persistent abidance over time is what yields lasting results. Also understand that unless sufficient time has been given to a meditative practice that stabilizes attention, formless abidance will be difficult. The mind or attention is so used to contacting/attaching to form(thoughts,objects,perceptions,sensations etc.,) that without some previous practice that stabilizes attention,the abidance will be difficult.Maybe only a few seconds at first. But with persistence, the duration increases until one day,it's done. Attention will no longer go out to meet or attach to form.
Peace, bliss, love, happiness etc,emerge as abidance stabilizes. The advice is to inquire,then just sit and be. There's nothing else to do. Just be.
That's it.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Guru Fat Bastard

[Beginner Mind]

@Raptorsin7 First of all, go Raptors!  Secondly, have you tried sitting down and allowing everything to be as it is?  Much simpler than self-inquiry in my experience.

[Aaron p]

Don't focus on the question, focus on observing directly. Allow the question to exist only as guidance that is gently uttered to keep the direction of the observation in line. It is the consistent observation that matters

[Cosmin_Visan]

3 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

 I find myself getting bored/distracted after repeatedly asking who am I

Like anything in life, you shouldn't force yourself to do anything. Just do what you like. If you like playing computer games, then do that. Don't force yourself into things that don't actually interest you only because they might sound profound or having social status.

[The0Self]

11 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

What is the purpose of self inquiry?

I can recognize that when the question, who am I, is asked in thought, there is awareness of that thought which is itself not a thought. After that point, I'm left with pressure/tension in the head and other sensations of the body. 

How deep is the inquiry supposed to go? I find myself getting bored/distracted after repeatedly asking who am I, and it feels like later on during the sits I'm not as attentive to what's occurring as during the earlier portions of my sit.

For anyone who awakened through self inquiry, can you give a description of how the process unfolded for you.

Here's how it's done: Who is experiencing what is happening? I am. That's a thought. Who is the subject aware of that thought? Feel into it. Constantly refocus again and again on the one who seems to be experiencing. It's always there, but forever beyond your reach, since you are it. This is an intense activity that takes quite a bit of practice and diligence. Continuously catch the I, realize it's not the I because you just experienced it and so it's not the I -- "what you can see, that you cannot be" -- and refocus over and over again, ignoring every experience because experience is not what you're looking for. You're looking for what's beyond experience. Eventually what may happen, is a particularly transcendent state that many have called The Witness; Witnessing; the spacious mind; The Vastness of Awareness. It's like experience flips inside out and you're looking in at experience, rather than out, and there's a seeming barrier between you and experience and you feel untouchable and god-like -- completely and blissfully absorbed in pure I-AM-ness. DO NOT STOP HERE. Keep going further. Treat that experience as any other -- not what you're looking for. What happens beyond this is beyond description.

First, mountains are mountains. Next, mountains aren't mountains. And then, mountains are mountains again.

[Raptorsin7]

@The0Self How will I know if I'm moving in the right direction during a meditation session?

Over the past few weeks some days I feel like i'm making progress and going deeper into feelings of myself, and then sometimes I'm just constatnly getting distracted by thinking and there's no stable attention.

There is a correct way to do this right, in the sense that if done correctly it should lead to the witness state of consciousness? I've been trying to really understand what about my meditation sessions is working and what's not working recently, because I think if the inquiry works then it should work for some reason, or based on a specific aspect of the technique.

It seems to me, based on my experience and observing others, that when people say meditation/inquiry requires years or months of practice etc, it's because they weren't performing the inquiry properly and when it finally works for them, it's because they finally did the technique in a proper way during their sit. 

I used to have the view that meditation was like exercise, in that you just keep doing it, and even though you might not notice the effects, you can be sure it's having a positive effect. But i'm starting to think this is how people spend years on a hamster wheel of "spiritual practice" thinking they are getting results when in reality they are just spinning their wheels, all the while "practicing"

[The0Self]

@Raptorsin7 It's a very subtle technique but if you think you're doing it wrong, it's because you're overthinking it. Just simply ignore every experience and focus-on (look-for; find) the one who seems to be aware of it. Now...the reason that can seem confusing is because that's actually not possible to do... But attempting to do it over and over with great intensity is the whole practice. It takes practice to do it fluidly, so be patient. Perhaps try an established meditation system like The Mind Illuminated first to get your mind stable enough to do it with some greater ease.

And btw, this whole fluid technique itself is also just an experience, so ignore it and attempt to find the one who is aware of it. Over and over you will catch what feels like the I, realize it isn't the I because the I is aware of it, and refocus again and again. If you're still experiencing, keep going. If you seem not to be experiencing anything, that's still an experience -- who knows there's no experience? And on and on and on...

Edited November 18, 2020 by The0Self

[Adamq8]

22 hours ago, The0Self said:

Here's how it's done: Who is experiencing what is happening? I am. That's a thought. Who is the subject aware of that thought? Feel into it. Constantly refocus again and again on the one who seems to be experiencing. It's always there, but forever beyond your reach, since you are it. This is an intense activity that takes quite a bit of practice and diligence. Continuously catch the I, realize it's not the I because you just experienced it and so it's not the I -- "what you can see, that you cannot be" -- and refocus over and over again, ignoring every experience because experience is not what you're looking for. You're looking for what's beyond experience. Eventually what may happen, is a particularly transcendent state that many have called The Witness; Witnessing; the spacious mind; The Vastness of Awareness. It's like experience flips inside out and you're looking in at experience, rather than out, and there's a seeming barrier between you and experience and you feel untouchable and god-like -- completely and blissfully absorbed in pure I-AM-ness. DO NOT STOP HERE. Keep going further. Treat that experience as any other -- not what you're looking for. What happens beyond this is beyond description.

First, mountains are mountains. Next, mountains aren't mountains. And then, mountains are mountains again.

Thats a really legit explanation mate!

[snowyowl]

On 17/11/2020 at 8:31 AM, Beginner Mind said:

@Raptorsin7 First of all, go Raptors!  Secondly, have you tried sitting down and allowing everything to be as it is?  Much simpler than self-inquiry in my experience.

Hi, are you saying these two approaches merge together when you develop a more advanced stage of consciousness; or are they distinct techniques which don't converge until you get all the way to enlightenment? 

Just curious because I'm practicing the 'let it be' approach at the moment, but my restless monkey mind keeps asking if there's a better technique out there to try, it's never quite satisfied. If they're only really different at the beginner stage, then there's less need to shop around and get distracted and slowed down. 

[Beginner Mind]

57 minutes ago, snowyowl said:

Hi, are you saying these two approaches merge together when you develop a more advanced stage of consciousness; or are they distinct techniques which don't converge until you get all the way to enlightenment? 

Just curious because I'm practicing the 'let it be' approach at the moment, but my restless monkey mind keeps asking if there's a better technique out there to try, it's never quite satisfied. If they're only really different at the beginner stage, then there's less need to shop around and get distracted and slowed down. 

I would say they are distinct techniques; both bring you to the same destination ultimately.

The two methods that have worked for me are: (1) Being aware of being aware, and (2) Allowing everything to be as it is.

Being aware of being aware may be the easiest to do, if you can recognize the experience of being aware (some people struggle with it--I certainly did for a long time).  The alternative is to allow everything to be as it is, also known as 'surrender'.  

It may just be my imagination, but I seem to experience more bliss when I am aware of being aware, whereas allowing everything to be as it is is felt more as peace.

But no, I wouldn't say there is anything 'better' than letting everything be as it is.  All these different methods bring you to the peace of your true nature.  Just go with whatever you feel drawn to. 

[snowyowl]

@Beginner Mind  thanks, that's really clear.  I'll stay with being rather than awareness for now as I can't seem to find pure awareness itself, separate from the contents of awareness. And I'll give my monkey mind space to be itself too, while it settles itself down  

[Beginner Mind]

@snowyowl Yes, allow EVERYTHING to be as it is, including monkey mind. 

[B222]

Who feels? I do. Who am I? Awareness. How can I be awareness if I’m aware that there’s awareness? Who’s aware? 
 

There’s that feeling. Who feels it? I do. If I feel it, does that mean it’s me? How can it be me if I feel it? Who feels it? Who notices that I feel, that I’m aware that I’m aware that I feel? 
 

The mind always like to try and get somewhere and any answer feels like an accomplishment. Notice it and notice the noticing noticing all. No more questions, no more answers. 
 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by B222