Should we get vaccinated for COVID-19?

[Consept]

19 hours ago, Vipassana said:

@Consept well I agree that vaccine is the solution for the masses because most people are far away from catching Covid and being left harmless. 

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000119312518323562/d577473ds1.htm

This link from Moderna outlines their mRNA Vaccine business model. Just by reading a dozen pages, you can see their intention and attitude with vaccines. In other words, its a stage orange establishment created for profit rather than an aspirational plan to rid humanity of a dangerous virus. Which is just the nature of how things are in our current collectives development but it lacks integrity. I'm aware of how Stage Orange survival works so I can inner stand why they operate the way they do but to someone who cannot apply systems thinking looks into one of these companies then by default, they are going to want to stay away from whatever products these people are selling. 

So I guess the real problem is what is the solution for getting people to actually take this vaccine and dissolving the hesitancy?

I think its transparency however transparency is a double edged sword. 

For example on Page 33 where they talk about potential risks they mention 

"[T]here can be no assurance that our LNPs will not have undesired effects. Our LNPs could contribute, in whole or in part, to one or more of the following: immune reactions, infusion reactions, complement reactions, opsonation reactions, antibody reactions . . . or reactions to the PEG from some lipids or PEG otherwise associated with the LNP. Certain aspects of our investigational medicines may induce immune reactions from either the mRNA or the lipid as well as adverse reactions within liver pathways or degradation of the mRNA or the LNP, any of which could lead to significant adverse events in one or more of our clinical trials."

and then instead of expressing concern over clinical trial participants’ welfare, that section of the prospectus concluded that any one of these problems “could materially harm [the company’s] business, financial conditions, and prospects.”

so anyone who looks even a bit into their ethics is going to be very hesitant to take the vaccine, especially when people believe that the harm caused by the virus is blown out of proportion.

 

This is the nature of most businesses in our current culture, you can see it as bad but really its just the current paradigm. The reality is most people would more likely respond to hard science and business than if the language was flowery and caring, it is what it is. The fact that we are in this paradigm has led to market competition which is why the vaccine has been developed so quickly. Also they have to look at it from a business point of view because vaccines are not a big money maker for pharma companies, that is why the government subsidises them when someone gets ill, because business wise its not worth it, the pay outs theyd have to make would mean they cant continue to make vaccines. In fact most companies wanted to stop making vaccines because it wasnt worth it, governments had to step in and cover them otherwise they wouldve just stopped. 

Its also important that these companies do make profits so that they can continue to develop vaccines and medicines, yes they probably take the piss and pay themselves crazy bonuses, but at the core the company at least can not lose money otherwise people will die. There is a lot of manipulation and medicine that doesnt need to be sold etc, there a lots of problems with pharma. 

So the pharma companies as they are, are just reflective of the society we live in, as we develop hopefully we can use less orange language, but just because its that know doesnt necessarily make it bad. 

Also again what would be the solution, assuming people are both against lockdowns and vaccines, what do we do to get out of this?  

[Kalki Avatar]

3 hours ago, Consept said:

This is the nature of most businesses in our current culture, you can see it as bad but really its just the current paradigm. The reality is most people would more likely respond to hard science and business than if the language was flowery and caring, it is what it is. The fact that we are in this paradigm has led to market competition which is why the vaccine has been developed so quickly. Also they have to look at it from a business point of view because vaccines are not a big money maker for pharma companies, that is why the government subsidises them when someone gets ill, because business wise its not worth it, the pay outs theyd have to make would mean they cant continue to make vaccines. In fact most companies wanted to stop making vaccines because it wasnt worth it, governments had to step in and cover them otherwise they wouldve just stopped. 

Its also important that these companies do make profits so that they can continue to develop vaccines and medicines, yes they probably take the piss and pay themselves crazy bonuses, but at the core the company at least can not lose money otherwise people will die. There is a lot of manipulation and medicine that doesnt need to be sold etc, there a lots of problems with pharma. 

So the pharma companies as they are, are just reflective of the society we live in, as we develop hopefully we can use less orange language, but just because its that know doesnt necessarily make it bad. 

Also again what would be the solution, assuming people are both against lockdowns and vaccines, what do we do to get out of this?  

@Consept There have been worst viruses on the past. The yearly death rate is of all different causes, and covid has such low death rate in comparison. If we go to that extreme, we should had been locked down long time ago for our "safety".

So what to do about the lock down? The whole year (2020) has been under lock down. Thats more than enough for such drama. They should feel proud ppl have not gone crazier. A global protest against such mind game is what should be done.

On the other hand, Its okay to have a vaccine. The problem comes when you use law enforcement (psychological authority) to impose your will over peoples free will, body and mind. People who want to be vaccinated, should do it. Why? If the vaccine works it means you are inmune to it, so if I get covid I cant affect you. Simple logic. Let all of those that dont want a vaccine like me to get fucked, while you save yourself. Forget about us. But no, why mandatory? If such thing comes by law enforcement, then a global protest should be done against it as well. 

Denmark is not having it. 9 days of consecutive protest against mandatory vaccine. They dropped it.

Remember, we are the ones who give governments their power. Its just an agreement. They are there to serve us. Actually, their only power lies on the military. If the police and militaries realize such unfairness, they are over. And if one government looses its power, other countries might do the same, following a domino effect. Then we might have the possiblity to rebuild a conscious government. Police and military are the people we need to talk to on the streets. Especially if things start to go wrong. Then our word will get spread among them. 

I do not encourage blind conspiracies. But to do research, stay aware and open. I do not follow any american paranoic-conspiranoic, thats probably why most of you get so closed against such possiblity. You need to resesrch on your own, read from people of other languages and translate the information. And thats not even including the fact that you as consciousness (GOD) have the capacity to contemplate and access the truth of such themes. Everything follows an order in reality like a chain. Yes, you can actually get your own answers through a refined logic (deep rational analysis) intuition and awareness. But if you are closed to even start thinking on such direction, no wonder why you think is a conspiracy. 

Is just what it is. On plain sight. Humans have always craved absolute power and control over others. Its an instinctual desire. Conquest of the past over others and countries were done. Now its done via psychology and information/technology in a discret way.  

Even I who have experienced Enligthenment & Truth have been seduced by power and dominion. Now imagine these people with such authority from birth. Excluding others not at their level. With a lack of clarity of truth and such mind clouded by ambition. Families who have carried their power over generations at all cost. Would they give up all that pleasure and instinctual gratification just to become one with others, help them rise and kick them out? No, lol. 

This doesnt necesarily mean such people do dark magic or are in cooperation with demons, aliens, etc. But, when you want power and need to stay in control over it, you will do whatever you can to have it. You will contact and learn everything.

They have become expert deceivers. Masters of Geopolitical Chess. Thats what true game is about. You can't believe otherwise. It has to catch you on surprise. 

Neuralink. Yes its fantastic. It could help you in many things. First of all, they will always sell on you only the good part. The part that will trigger your ego to enhance your power. Never talking about the downside. Lets say half of the planet gets it and its doing great. Then, after 5 years they decide to turn on some aspect you had no idea and it takes over your psyche, then body. Now you are fucked. Same with the vaccine. 

Do not take my word, do as you feel. Im simply trying to show you the whole spectrum and consider all possible scenarios. Im not biased to one side. If you do your own deep contemplation, such aspects most pop in your awareness. Follow your intuition and deepest logic. I wish everyone good luck and hope am wrong. Time will speak by itself. 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Kalki Avatar

[Consept]

@Kalki Avatar

Just so im clear on what youre saying, your view is that there shouldnt be a lockdown and also anyone should be able to opt out of the vaccine. This still doesnt give a clear plan on what should be done going forward. We know deaths are increasing and will increase further without any measures, there have been 60k plus excess deaths in the UK and thats with all these measures in place. Also a major problem with covid is that a high number of people can have serious symptoms, they may not die but they will need hospital care, this has a knock on effect for others who have conditions and can not get timely treatment, basically it puts significant pressure on the nhs. As far as i understand your position, you are suggesting living normally and taking no action, this is not a solution and will definitely cause deaths and many other negative consequences. 

Your vaccine solution of some people take it some dont is also not really viable as there needs to be something around a 90% take up rate for the population to achieve immunity and eventually kill the virus. If the virus is going around say the 40% that dont want to take it, it will always be in circulation. So again what is your actual solution, im not convinced that letting it run rampant is a viable solution and i doubt if you were in power yourself you would be able to justify the huge loss of life that has and will occur without any kind of strategy. 

There have been worse virus' there affect was worse because medical advancements have occurred. This is specifically deadly because its not immediately deadly, so people can have no symptoms and spread it around. If it was ebola its too deadly which is why it didnt travel. Ive also mentioned that ive used excess deaths so regardless of all causes theres been a high level of extra deaths. Covid has a low death rate compared to things like heart disease yes, but hospitals are prepared and have a rough idea of how many will come in with heart disease, its also not contagious and will not get worse month to month. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Consept

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Kalki Avatar said:

There have been worst viruses on the past.

Name two viruses that have been worse. Coronavirus is arguably the worst virus in human history.

2 hours ago, Kalki Avatar said:

and covid has such low death rate in comparison. If we go to that extreme, we should had been locked down long time ago for our "safety".

It's not just death rates and risk of death. Covid is much different than viruses with high rates of death (rabies) or activities with relatively high risk of death. Flying in a personal helicopter during a storm has a high risk of death, yet it's not contagious. If I fly in a personal helicopter and risk my life, it does not impact anybody else. Yet the coronavirus does. It has a relatively high RO contagion combined with relatively severe symptoms. 

And it's not simply survival rates. When covid is spreading, hospitals reach capacity and that increases the risk of severe health consequences and death for everyone. When hospitals are filled with covid patients, it doesn't matter if 98% of them survive. They have crippled the health care system. People that have heart attacks, car accidents, strokes, chemotherapy, kidney issues will have reduced health care access and what would have been treatable becomes a severe health risk and even life threatening. In some areas, health care is being rationed. 

2 hours ago, Kalki Avatar said:

So what to do about the lock down? The whole year (2020) has been under lock down. Thats more than enough for such drama. They should feel proud ppl have not gone crazier. A global protest against such mind game is what should be done.

Part of the problem is that people do not want to change their behavior and take mitigation efforts. If they did, lockdowns might not be necessary. As we speak, covid is spreading like wildfire through the U.S. and airports are filled with people - many not wearing masks. In my area, supermarkets are crowded and there are a lot of anti-maskers. People want to be in crowded restaurants, concerts etc. 

Wearing masks, social distancing and lockdowns are not a "mind game". They have been proven to mitigate spread of the virus. Covid is having severe impacts on healthcare systems and economies. 

And where is been locked down the whole year of 2020? Lockdowns didn't even start until March and I haven't heard of any country under continuous lockdown.

2 hours ago, Kalki Avatar said:

On the other hand, Its okay to have a vaccine. The problem comes when you use law enforcement (psychological authority) to impose your will over peoples free will, body and mind. People who want to be vaccinated, should do it. Why? If the vaccine works it means you are inmune to it, so if I get covid I cant affect you. Simple logic. Let all of those that dont want a vaccine like me to get fucked, while you save yourself. Forget about us. But no, why mandatory? If such thing comes by law enforcement, then a global protest should be done against it as well. 

This misses the point that a certain percentage of people need to be vaccinated to be effective at the population level. It's not just the individual level. If only 10% of the population gets vaccinated, it does little good at the population level. Unvaccinated people refusing to wear masks and socially distance will continue to spread the virus. Hospitals will be maxed out and businesses won't be able to run.

If I get vaccinated and I'm immune to covid, how does that help me if my place of work cannot operate and I lose my job? If I am immune to covid, how does that help me if I have a heart condition and I cannot get access to a hospital because it is full of covid patients? We are all in this together. From the virus' perspective, a human social system is one inter-connected organsims to infect. A million people in one society is like a million cells in one person. It is not a million separate individual pieces. 

2 hours ago, Kalki Avatar said:

I do not encourage blind conspiracies. But to do research, stay aware and open. 

Have you done research on the development and clinical trials for the vaccine?

[Vipassana]

could it work? 

[Forestluv]

@Vipassana Hmmm, interesting idea. In some clinical trials, people get paid to participate. The government could frame it like a massive stage 4 clinical trial that they are paying $1,500 for participation to compensate for the small risk. I think this framing would work better than saying "To get your $1,500 covid relief money you have to get vaccinated first" - that won't go over too well, imo. 

[Vipassana]

6 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

"To get your $1,500 covid relief money you have to get vaccinated first" - that won't go over too well, imo. 

Yeah that would create a very repulsive effect 

[Willie]

23 minutes ago, Vipassana said:

could it work? 

Yet another good idea that would make Republican senators scoff. 

[Axiomatic]

this shit got me hella depressed bro

[Forestluv]

[Leo Gura]

$1500 for completing 30 rounds of 5-MeO-DMT.

#DMTstimulus

[diamondpenguin]

@Leo Gura I accept the challenge 

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, diamondpenguin said:

@Leo Gura I accept the challenge

Call Uncle Sam for your check

[Preety_India]

$1500..? 

OK I will take the vaccine.. 

[diamondpenguin]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Call Uncle Sam for your check

Haha lol. I'll do the dmt psychedelic test, but I ain't takin some vaccine that ain't been proven yet. Would you? Prolly ironic as could be how my mind is setup compared all your guys and girls minds. I'm like backwards. And everyone else is on the other side in the mirror universe. Its nuts. 

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, diamondpenguin said:

Would you?

Yes I would and I will.

[Preety_India]

31 minutes ago, diamondpenguin said:

I ain't takin some vaccine that ain't been proven yet. Would you?

Yea. Not sure. I still have this anxiety for this vaccine. 

[PurpleTree]

this year i already got vaccinated for nothing basically

i planned a trip to latin america and the amazon, wen't to get the necessary vaccines for these countries

and then covid hit and i couldn't go.

these are old and tried vaccines though

[PurpleTree]

i also have my own conspiracy theory about vaccines, which isn't totally serious of course

 

If i was the dark overlord, the 1% of 1%

I would get some people to create a disease/pandemic and also a vaccine for it.

I would already know that most of these annoying "conspiracy theorists" and many "counter culture" people won't take the vaccine.

so when pandemic hits, only the good citizens who take vaccines etc. survive

tadaaaaa

 

[No Self]

4 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:so when pandemic hits, only the good citizens who take vaccines etc. survive

tadaaaaa

 

Sadly they are too busy eating babies to come up with such an ingenious stratagem.