Should we get vaccinated for COVID-19?

[7thLetter]

Title says it. Why or why not?

[Consept]

Assuming it has been sufficiently tested as any other vaccine or medicine is or should be and there are no unwanted side effects or issues with it, then i dont really see the problem. Given this criteria, the reasons why are obvious ie reduce deaths and illness, reduce spread so that normal life can resume, reduce pressure on healthcare systems and workers etc. For me the only argument that can be made against it is if the vaccine itself is dangerous

[AlyK]

I'll be holding back to see what happens to the early adopters. The most common covid symptoms are well-documented now & I'd prefer to take my chances with those than the unknown potential side effects of a fast-tracked vaccine. 

[Preety_India]

Like a sadist, I'll first hold back and watch others getting vaccinated as Guinea pigs. If they don't show any visible bad effects, then I'll go get it. 

 

[Karmadhi]

I would not recommend it unless you have a bad health condition that would make COVID life threatening for you. Would not be surprised if the side effects of the vaccine are bigger than the actual harm the virus does to most people. If you are below 50 without any bad health conditions, the chances of dying or being permanently damaged from COVID at this point are close to 0. 

[Leo Gura]

If we don't the global economy will be dead for a decade to come.

Vaccine is the only thing that will save the economy at this point.

You can cry all you want about the dangers of vaccines, but consider the dangers of a 10-year global Great Depression with 30% unemployment and 50% of businesses closed forever.

The choice is yours. Choose wisely.

[herghly]

I won't be taking it.

[Kalki Avatar]

@Leo Gura Yep. But you wont cry if the vaccine gives you some bad health secondary effects, right? 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Kalki Avatar

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Kalki Avatar said:

@Leo Gura Yep. But you wont cry if the vaccine gives you some bad health secondary effects, right?

Every decision in life comes with risks.

Strategy is about making wise decisions with imperfect knowledge and no guarantees of success.

You are exhibiting poor strategy, which could end up killing millions of people. Which is why people like you should not occupy positions of power and responsibility.

[Preety_India]

I was never afraid of vaccines. 

But something about this particular vaccine sends cheeels. Don't know why. Is it all the conspiracy theories going to my head lol.

[Forestluv]

The issue is far more complex than myopically looking at death rates. The rabies virus has a very high death rate, yet it isn't that harmful to society since it's frequency and contagion is low and it quickly kills the person it infects. The rabies virus doesn't cripple the economy and health care system.

In addition to crippling the economy, covid cripples the health care system. When hospitals are at 90% capacity due to covid, healthcare for ALL illness is impacted. People in car accidents, people with chest pain, people needing chemotherapy etc. The ENTIRE healthcare system is brought to it's knees. It doesn't matter if 98% of covid patients survive. A high survival rate for hospitalized patients actually puts MORE stress on the healthcare system. A covid patient needing 10 days of intensive treatment to survive is much more demanding on a healthcare system than if covid patients quickly died within 2hrs of reaching the hospital. 

As well, a certain percentage of a society needs to take a vaccine for the vaccine to be effective (at the societal level). A vaccine that is very effective at the individual level, will not be very effective at the societal level if only 50% of the population get vaccinated. The individual may be protected from coronavirus, yet their world would be crumbling around them due to covid impacts. 

[Rilles]

Yes. Ive taken about 5+ vaccines in my life and Im totally fine. Vaccine paranoia is out of hand. 

[Kalki Avatar]

@Leo Gura All that sounds good and wise. I simply hope you dont start crying and accept death like a man with cause. 

Isnt it better to let those that want to be vaccinated, get it first and then see the results after some months or year?

Everything that is rushed comes with the devil in it.

This situation is far more complex than one can think. It will generate chaos in all forms.

[Consept]

36 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I was never afraid of vaccines. 

But something about this particular vaccine sends cheeels. Don't know why. Is it all the conspiracy theories going to my head lol.

I think what it comes down to is if you trust the government or not. Those countries or people that don't trust their government and are not educated on vaccines will of course not take it. They have good reasons to not trust their government and for me this is a problem with politics, when you have a highly partisan politcal atmosphere it means that you will not trust the other side if they do get in power. Further you might not trust the government period if you have been negatively affected by their policies. 

A little research will show that vaccines are safe and have been very effective in eradicating illnesses, the doubt around it is due to other factors 

[peachboy]

35 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Yes. Ive taken about 5+ vaccines in my life and Im totally fine.

To be fair, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines, and this will be the first time they have been brought to market for human patients.

The ability to understand their long-term effects is predicated entirely in the theoretic. Most of the common vaccines taken today were developed decades ago.

 

 

[Consept]

 

Do you know how long it should take or the extent of testing that had been done? What would you advise the people working on the vaccine to do to make it more safe? 

17 minutes ago, Kalki Avatar said:

Everything that is rushed comes with the devil in it.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Consept said:

I think what it comes down to is if you trust the government or not. Those countries or people that don't trust their government and are not educated on vaccines will of course not take it. They have good reasons to not trust their government and for me this is a problem with politics, when you have a highly partisan politcal atmosphere it means that you will not trust the other side if they do get in power. Further you might not trust the government period if you have been negatively affected by their policies. 

A little research will show that vaccines are safe and have been very effective in eradicating illnesses, the doubt around it is due to other factors 

It's not about the government for me. 

I'm scared that they won't test it sufficiently and release it in a hurry. That can be a problem with the initial batch of vaccinated people showing bad effects 

If it were an old vaccine, no problem 

Since it's a new vaccine, I have fears surrounding its testing and safety. 

[Corpus]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Every decision in life comes with risks.

Strategy is about making wise decisions with imperfect knowledge and no guarantees of success.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

The issue is far more complex than myopically looking at death rates. 

In addition to crippling the economy, covid cripples the health care system.

As well, a certain percentage of a society needs to take a vaccine for the vaccine to be effective (at the societal level).

These 2 quotes ^^ sum it up IMO.

The luxury of time is not forthcoming; the decisions made are akin to "war-gaming strategy" and is the position we find ourselves in. Will there be unforeseen consequences? Almost certainly. Just consider the ramifications which will emerge as nations jockey for positions of access to the vaccine, and the political consequences and shifts in power this could precipitate. Any longer-term health consequences of the vaccine itself will be revealed should any occur.

[peachboy]

Think of it like a test. Remember that this is a dream-world.

If you think that the vaccine is out to get you, then guess what?

[Forestluv]

44 minutes ago, Kalki Avatar said:

Isnt it better to let those that want to be vaccinated, get it first and then see the results after some months or year?

A vaccine is not effective at the societal level unless a threshold % of people take the vaccine. 

If the majority of people had your mindset of "wait and see" - coronavirus would continue to spread through populations and continue to harm economies and healthcare systems.

Impact on one's individual self is a concern, yet it's also important to consider the population level. Your framing is essentially saying "I want other people to take the small risk of getting vaccinated, yet I want the benefits of them getting vaccinated". . .

If 90% of people take the small risk of getting vaccinated, the coronavirus subsides and the economy / heathcare system recover - would you be willing to refuse to benefit from their vaccinations? Would you be willing to sacrifice your finances and access to healthcare as if they never got vaccinated and coronavirus crippled the economy and healthcare? 

Due to the severity of covid, vaccine development has been accelerated. As well, there are likely some profit motives to accelerate the process. There will be higher risks than vaccines developed over 3+ years. Yet there are also major risks if a majority of people refuse the vaccine. It could cause global depression and mass suffering for a generation or longer. I think there are legitimate concerns for both taking and refusing vaccination - yet anti-vaxxer conspiracies and misinformation prevent us from making the best decisions for ourselves and society. 

In terms of game theory consider the following scenarios:

A) A majority of people refuse the vaccination - at a societal level the vaccine is ineffective and covid continuues to spread leading to global economic depression and partial collapse of healthcare systems for a generation.

B) 90% of people agree to take the vaccination. Of those 1% experience significant long-lasting side-effects, 10% experience mild short-term side-effects and 89% have virtually no side-effects. The vaccine is effective and covid is essentially extinguished like smallpox or polio. Global economies go through recessions for about 5 years. 

At a societal level, option B is obviously the better option. Yet the key is that a majority of people get vaccinated. If a majority of people say "I want them to take the small risk, I don't want to take the small risk myself" - the vaccine won't work at the societal level.