Spiral Dynamics Practice Thread

[Carl-Richard]

21 hours ago, Elisabeth said:

Thanks! 

I looked through the website briefly. Definitely a purposeful, out of the box initiative.  Would you mind summing out some pointers to why you think it's beyond green? I'm not sure I can tell. 

I'm gonna definitely read his blog posts about support groups, that's of interest to me. 

The idea behind Healthygamergg stems from a systemic approach like you've alluded to. When Dr. Alok became a psychatrist, he realized that talking one-on-one has a certain limited effectiveness, and more importantly that many people have the same issues.

Streaming those conversations to 10k people can multiply the net therapeutic value by 1000x. Then you have the coaching program which is essentially the same principle only multiplied even further. So the approach is systemic.

If we look at the content (the methods and teachings), it's not only standard western psychology/psychiatry. It's also heavily based on eastern traditions and spirituality (meditation, dharma etc..):

Not surprising considering he studied for 6 years to become a monk in India. So the content is integrative and holistic.

Systemic approach + integrative and holistic content = Tier 2.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Soulbass]

On the topic of violence.

Blue: Society requires rules to live in harmony, otherwise everyone would fight each other

Orange: Violence is replaced with more subtle stuff: business, personal power...

Green: Violence must be abolished! But, it's OK because I love you.

Yellow: Violence is essential in order to grow from it.

Turquoise: Violence in the world is a reflection of my inner psychology.

[Elisabeth]

@Carl-Richard Amazing, thank you!

[Raphael]

Yellow on Analyzing Trump's Spiral Development with Humour

Donald Trump is the greatest example of a narcissistic stage red/orange leader who ever lived! Seriously, history books will be written on him because he fit so well his role! He is especially great to practice spiral dynamics stage yellow who analyses unconscious behaviors of a selfish leader elected thanks to an archaic system...but... OMG!!! this is a strange loop!!!

In summary, Trump is the greatest depiction of a modern stage red/orange selfish leader who ever existed and will ever exist.

[caspex]

Topic: Homosexuality

Biege: Can't register, doesn't see a difference.

Honest Internal Opinion: ...

Purple: That's weird man. I guess fine but I don't really know. I think we should get the advise on elders when it comes to homosexual sex and if it should be allowed here cuz I don't really know, I don't think they will allow it. I would support heterosexuality more and I think you should do that instead. I mean all our ancestors and previous generations were straight so why do you be gay? Maybe the gods of nature will get angry if you do this and so that's why no one else in our ancestry did it. So I think you should not do this as well or we might get in trouble. Come on, we love you, so just be normal.

Red: Fucking knock that off. You disgust me man/girl. I am gonna fucking puke all over seeing you fuck the same gender. Just stop. Ew. Get the fuck out and don't show me your face again. I don't even want to touch you. 

(That is if red and the homosexual are same gender. If the red one is female and gay one male or vice versa. Of course the responses will be way different. Not to mention it varies person to person anyways.)

Blue: I don't support homosexuality at all. It literally goes against Nature and God. I can't stand it. God didn't create your soul to do these dirty deeds and go against what God wants. So many sins man. You'll go to hell. Just stop all this and ask for forgiveness and pray. I wonder what goes through the heads of gay people lmao. *Other general remarks in trendy language to fit in*

OR

I think it's fine. I just hope no one in my close friends and family is gay. Nor do I wish to be. I just want to be normal and live a normal life. 

(Notice: Purple, Red and Blue have these very natural seeming fear in them when witnessing Homosexuality, because they have built an identity around straightness and homosexuality threatens to kill that part of you. All these arguments and beating around the bush is just them trying to express this feeling by making excuses. This is the strongest in Red and Blue, not as strong in Purple in my view.)

Orange: *Acts like it's the most normal thing in front of let's say someone came out as gay* (This act is not as genuine as the one doing it may think. Yes they do realize it's absolutely normal, but this act itself of being like "Yeah man ok, I don't really care lol, it's 2020" is more of a remark to boost ego and feel special that they are not like those Blue/Red people.)

If asked about opinion online: 

I can't get my head around all these religious people or some like LGBTQ allergic people in general. Like how come can you not see that being gay doesn't fucking matter. Just let people be. These homophobic people absolutely disgust me. I don't know what goes on in their head. Maybe they didn't pay attention in school. Homosexuality is a completely normal phenomenon that has been happening FOREVER. It is found in other animals and is completely NATURAL. People who are homosexual are just as humans as us. There is no fucking genetic difference at all. So drop all these silly notions of it not being natural or "the way God intended us to be us to be straight". 

(Orange doesn't feel the repulsion Blue red and purple feel).

Green: *Genuinely knows it's normal. No trying to boost ego in these regards.* 

It's not any different from straight sexuality at all. I say we shouldn't see any difference at all. I mean why do we even give a fuck about this? We have better things to worry about like cleaning up the roads, oceans and planting trees, preventing Global warming. Saving earth. Being with animals and nature. Helping other people. Be loving and kind. That brings greater joy than getting so worked about things that don't even matter. Homosexuality is natural. Sexual intercourse is pure love. Be it between any genders. I can see why people are gay. Those who are homophobic should just give it up already. 

(Notice: Orange and Green have repulsion towards Homophobic people. Ironic isn't it?)

Yellow: Homosexuality, in my opinion, is pretty interesting considering that it doesn't lead to reproduction. But I think it's just another expression of the diversity that life offers. We all have our different view when it comes to different topics. And I guess that happens naturally as well with sexuality. Despite it being just another sexuality, it can be very eye opening to discover that Homosexual nature within you if you are Heterosexual. And vice versa. It's like a whole new dimension to sex with a whole new feel. Definitely worth exploring. Albeit requires courage to step beyond your sexuality. With others sexualities like Pansexual etc. It may just be a matter of brain stuff but I think we can work and eventually rewire our brain to be able to experience other sexualities. Like Bisexual, Homosexual, Heterosexual, Pansexual, etc. Just amazing stuff. I know this is very threatening to your identity but it's worth it. Will take some time depending on who you are and how open minded you are/ May take some days to some weeks to some months to some years of work. But it's worth it and goes way beyond just exploring different sexualities. 

(Yellow feels no repulsion towards even homophobic or homophobic-phobic people. Because he/she understands them and can be willing to help them get past it,)
 

Turquoise: Can register, doesn't see a difference. 

Honest Internal Opinion: ...

Edited December 19, 2020 by Swarnim

[Guest SirVladimir]

Fine, I'll have a go because I'm bored of the mundane stereotypes being posted.

Let's attempt to create a Blue nature-warrior; sort of an inbred doppelganger of Green:

"Look, man... Imma claim to be a simple folk. This Nature has raised me like a fine wolf. She's a thing of beauty, really... An ardent monster at times, but I love her like my wife. She's got an order, and we gotta preserve that structure. Folks say I'm strict, but I haven't fled the country for 50 years; that's how much I love her. I'd rather burn down with her. It's them, ya know. T-h-e-m. They're burnin' my old girl down, so I joined the Movement. We gotta fight for her. I'm a disciplined worker, always reliable, always up for the task, man. I always work in a structured manner to support what's right. Yeah, I get hard, fixed, and polarizing sometimes. But it's an honor, ya know, to grapple in the frontlines. It's a righteous thing to do... I'd feel ashamed if I kept silent and didn't obey her natural order. The birds are disciplined. So are the trees. They perfectly know their place. So we should be too. Self-control, I'm telling you. Ain't no social circles gonna do the job. Just know thy place. She's our Goddess. Bow to her. It's your duty. Hers is a Divine law. I sacrifice myself to live under her reign."

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by SirVladimir

[FelixP]

A discussion on subjectivity and perspective between stage orange and stage green:

Green: For the purposes of quality (non-violent) communication I think it's important to recognise that there is no objective reality and people will interpret the same things differently.

Orange: But what's the use of that? With that logic we'll never get anywhere.

Green: Don't you think it's ironic that we disagree on whether we see the world as subjective or objective yet you still maintain that it's objective?

Orange: Not really because there are obviously some things everyone can agree on like if you say to me, "this chair isn't a chair", then you are clearly wrong.

Green: But what if someone has a mental illness and they honestly don't see that chair as a chair but something else?

Orange: Well that's why they are mentally ill then isn't it?

[UnbornTao]

Stage blue: as long as it makes you money, it doesn’t really matter what you do.

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, Arzola said:

Stage blue: as long as it makes you money, it doesn’t really matter what you do.

What about armed robbery?

[UnbornTao]

25 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What about armed robbery?

Stage red, then?

“But I didn’t shoot anybody!”

A gentle, stage blue criminal.

[Carl-Richard]

37 minutes ago, Arzola said:

Stage red, then?

“But I didn’t shoot anybody!”

A gentle, stage blue criminal.

Stage Blue: it doesn’t really matter what you do for money as long as you're serving a transcendent ideal (God, the law, your country, your family). If there is ever a time where Blue will shoot someone for something, it will be in service of those things.

[UnbornTao]

@Carl-Richard Good one 

[trenton]

I have an honest perspective on family, crime, sexuality, and personal responsibility.  I lived out this perspective when I was a child.

Blue reacting to red:

I come from a family of criminals who were constantly abusing drugs and stealing money.  I needed to take personal responsibility for this and recognize that my family is a terrible example for me.  My father told me that I could be the one to break the chain of crime in the family after he was routinely stuck in it.  I understand that people are more likely to become criminals of they drop out of school like my father.  Unlike him, I will be a sharp, disciplined student with straight A's.  (Which I did actually.). 

My school was also a bad example for me.  I only had one detention in my life which was when the teacher was bullying me believe it or not.  Aside from the teachers blaming children for the problems in the world, sexual impropriety was common.  There were grade school children flirting with girls, humping them, twerking, and all sorts of inappropriate things.  This all continued into high school, in fact 6/7 girls are expected to experience sexual harassment by the time they graduate.  I chose not to participate in the actions of other children, so I stayed to myself, away from them.  I don't want to get myself in trouble.  I was bullied by multiple students who were jealous of my grades and stole my homework.

I was one of those students at one point.  I stopped caring about doing my homework and nearly failed.  When I realized my selfishness could have hurt me by getting me held back, I snapped and became a straight A student.  During this time I also copied some of the inappropriate behaviors of other students so they would think I'm funny and be my friends.  I never really felt comfortable with the sexual topics every student talked about, and I struggle to find how people are supposed to handle these topics.  In fact I started laughing at kids for being gay even though I had gay thoughts and I was afraid of looking girly by admitting I like Justin Bieber.  It is unacceptable that sexual harassment is so commonplace, but it is unhealthy to isolate myself from other people when bad behavior is this common.  I did it to my family as well.  This makes me feel lost and confused as I try to figure complicated situations myself.  This lead to hyper rationalizing in response to emotions I did not like or understand how to handle.

This is an interesting example of stage blue mixed with resistance to mainstream culture or my environment.  Normally I would be a conformist at this stage, but instead I became an individual who questioned society and loved my own uniqueness.  There are definitely qualities of multiple stages if I take into account my reaction to religion when I was young.  I first wanted to know by which standards should I evaluate which religion was correct.  It still rubbed me the wrong way even though my family was Catholic.  I felt that I would lock myself into a narrow perspective which I would spend my life defending with wallpaper over my doubts all the way to my death bed.  I still felt that religion was somehow partially right, but that converting to any religion would be limiting and problematic.  There are definitely qualities of stage blue in this post, but I have a negative view of conformity because of how personal responsibility contrasted with my environment.  Perhaps there are qualities of yellow like being a lone wolf and being open minded.  I did a lot of self reflection while I was away from everyone else.