Law of attraction is absurd !

[Loving Radiance]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

‘you create your own reality’ [...] is being used as the very means not to consider it.

You create the reality that the reality is not created by you?

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one would rather suffer than [to] be attentive to their own judgements

Attention would mean unveiling the self?

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see the deepest insight to be realized is that of the questions that were never answered (op’er and or original inquiry wise)

Meaning the questions that are their answer? Or meaning non-knowing?

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these words said here can be ‘used’ either way

Either way as for being attentive and not being attentive?

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Notice these words said here can be ‘used’ either way. This is always the unnoticed dualistic way, until it is inspected and isn’t (the ‘non’ of ‘it’)

Where is the 'non' pointing at?

[mandyjw]

You can't focus on nothing, because there is no such thing, nonduality. There cannot be a substantial you, who is lacking something in some way. There just can't. Doesn't work out. It doesn't math.  But we try to do it all the time. "I don't have what I want, I'm not the way I want, etc." An outright, explicit thought is already moving in the direction of what we want but most of these thoughts are just accepted and not even recognized, verbalized or intentionally, consciously thought.

The only thing you can actually do is envision what you want, or appreciate what is there. 

LOA works the same way to find your favorite pair of socks that has been missing for two months, or in spiritual "progression". In fact, there's no real difference. Your missing/found socks are actually a profound mystical experience. But you think you and your socks are mundane, so you color over the magic that is there waiting to be noticed and invited in rather than felt as absence of. 

By the way, in the same way, there are no low quality teachings that you need someone else to help filter out for you. No one is teaching you anything you don't already know.  

[LfcCharlie4]

Ramaji will defo have changed his stance on that since Ananda (his partner) is big into manifestation, to me, it just sounds like Ramaji hasn't updated that part of the book, he wrote most of it in the early half of this decade. 

They've done Satsangs on Manifestation since that, so I'm like 99% sure that's the case. 

@Nahm is your best bet for this stuff, check out his main threads, also, I recommend a planner called Law Of Attraction palnner and the company behind it!

Edited November 16, 2020 by LfcCharlie4

[Nahm]

@LfcCharlie4 ?? 

21 minutes ago, Loving Radiance said:

You create the reality that the reality is not created by you?

By creating (but missing that one is doing so) an idea of you, the ‘separate self’, an idea which can be self-inspected, and is self-inspection.

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Attention would mean unveiling the self?

Unveiling of the falsity of judgement. 

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Meaning the questions that are their answer? Or meaning non-knowing?

No, in the regular old sense...look at threads, notice questions asked of someone, which they never respond to. Not saying this is ‘wrong’ or anything, just that it is the deeper insight than questions that were answered. 

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Either way as for being attentive and not being attentive?

Heard vs manipulated into an existing paradigm. 

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Where is the 'non' pointing at?

At ‘filling in the blank’ as to why a question specifically asked of someone goes unanswered by that someone. When you see through ‘your’ intention directly, you then see through every one’s. Contrarily, one holds themself to be apart, missing that which is apart is the idea of themself, or their self image, or, ‘the separate self’. 

[Javfly33]

15 hours ago, electroBeam said:

LOA is absurd, but coincidence, randomness and chance is even more absurd. 

Very good. Loved it.

[Dodo]

16 hours ago, Intraplanetary said:

I'm reading this book 1000: The Levels of Consciousness and a Map of the Stages of Awakening for Spiritual Seekers and Teachers.

 

It says that the law of attraction is absurd as we can't order the universe around. And this realisation comes as we awaken deeper and deeper. 

 

Do you agree? What's your experience with LOA?

 

Bth, it's a great book. Another map to help you along your spiritual journey and it assists in filtering spiritual teachers and some low-quality teachings. Highly recommended. 

But don't leave until you tell me about LOA?! I'm very disappointed with my efforts to attract a job I wanted. 

 

My experience is that those who use it for pickup want me to grow a ponytail and become a girl in next life so they can have me. They are pigs I tellya! PUA is a disease and is in the way of true spirituality. It's black magic! It's a black hole 

Thats my experience 

[electroBeam]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

As in being presented with the notion ‘you create your own reality’...instead of considering this or pointing the inquiry into it, what is missed is the very notion presented for consideration is being used as the very means not to consider it. Another way of saying it is one would rather suffer than be attentive to their own judgements. (No offense anyone, this is of course more deeply not true). Yet another way to more practically see this...look at any threads here...and put the ‘non’ glasses on...see the deepest insight to be realized is that of the questions that were never answered (op’er and or original inquiry wise). Alternatively, a paradigm was held onto. Most often, judgement is employed inattentively (“asleep”) via comparison. It becomes so habitual it happens right under the nose, but goes unnoticed. But one can be attentive to what one has thus far been inattentive to. A specific example would be being inattentive to one’s belief in separate things & causation, which opens the door to believing concepts about randomness, luck & coincidence, when ‘that there are separate things’ could have been directly inspected. The belly breathing is an alternative to reactionary thinking & behavior, and the inspection is then possible. It could be said that this is to discover the actuality of intention, which one is being / has been, inattentive to. Notice these words said here can be ‘used’ either way. This is always the unnoticed dualistic way, until it is inspected and isn’t (the ‘non’ of ‘it’).

Yeah but just because you become attentive to whatever you werent attentive to before, doesnt mean you can change it to whatever you want. You might see that it was different to what you thought it was, and let go of paradigms, but that's not changing it to whatever you want, as suggested by LOA enthusiasts. If LOA is actually about letting go of old paradigms and bringing on new ones, the LOA is very misleading, because its advertised as the ability to change the content within a paradigm just by visioning and thinking about it.

[LastThursday]

@Intraplanetary

To get to the root of LOA, you have to get to the root of intention. Where does intention come from? Is the future outcome of LOA and an intention linked even before the intention arises? Could you even see the intention as a precognition of the final outcome? Maybe LOA is even more absurd than you thought.

[Moksha]

Eckhart Tolle describes manifesting as holding a thought while Conscious, then sending the thought out. You do this a small number of times, not too much. Also, you don't take it too seriously. I haven't felt pulled to do this yet, has anyone else?

I do frequently feel that Consciousness is working through me, and ideas are coming through me that I didn't realize before. In a sense, inspiration and Conscious communication are manifestations, in the form of ideas and words.

[mandyjw]

44 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Yeah but just because you become attentive to whatever you werent attentive to before, doesnt mean you can change it to whatever you want. You might see that it was different to what you thought it was, and let go of paradigms, but that's not changing it to whatever you want, as suggested by LOA enthusiasts. If LOA is actually about letting go of old paradigms and bringing on new ones, the LOA is very misleading, because its advertised as the ability to change the content within a paradigm just by visioning and thinking about it.

Every possibility is created first in thought and with the belief that it's possible. Only then can it become manifest. I cannot give you a fresh baked chocolate chip cookie unless I know what they are, can envision them, and believe that I can make them. I've experienced really weird freak things happening to me because I obsessively worried about them happening a lot. And I created a weird niche job that everyone told me I wouldn't be able to pull off, but I was too busy creating to think about that. By the time I learned about LOA, it was like, oh hmm, that explains a lot. 

If you prefer the Law of Apathy instead, the law of attraction will work to uphold that in your experience just the same. 

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

Every possibility is created first in thought and with the belief that it's possible. Only then can it become manifest. I cannot give you a fresh baked chocolate chip cookie unless I know what they are, can envision them, and believe that I can make them. I've experienced really weird freak things happening to me because I obsessively worried about them happening a lot. And I created a weird niche job that everyone told me I wouldn't be able to pull off, but I was too busy creating to think about that. By the time I learned about LOA, it was like, oh hmm, that explains a lot. 

If you prefer the Law of Apathy instead, the law of attraction will work to uphold that in your experience just the same. 

I'm sure(and as a side note, excellent work on that niche job) but there's a lot more to life then just what you're creating on a personal level. Like how did you use LOA to manifest Trump? How did you use LOA to manifest me? Why did you use LOA to make the moon white instead of pink? Why did you use LOA to make the moon out of rocks instead of cheese? And why don't you use LOA to change that?

The universe is deeply mysterious, and you aint gonna demystify it with LOA. What I write here cannot be controlled or predicted by LOA from your POV. Not even my POV for a large part as there's no doer. What I write is almost mysteriously unpredictable, the only thing I can really control is how happy I am about it.

You can adapt yourself in miraculous ways with LOA, but as Ramaji implied, you can't control the dream with it. Maybe Law of Adaptation is much more accurate than Law of Attraction. 

Like yeah you thought about a cookie before you made it, you're gonna say the same thing about Trump and the moon and the solar system? Sometimes its the opposite, you think the world is made of atoms, and then when you look closer it isn't. So sometimes the universe is not what you're thinking or believing.

Edited November 16, 2020 by electroBeam

[mandyjw]

@electroBeam I am partially concious of how and why I manifested Trump, you, and a the moon as much as I'd want to be. I deeply love all of you by the way. I wouldnt want to demystify the universe. But I do want to take creative initiative in some areas. The appearance of influence and free will all just deepens the mystery. LOA deepens the mystery rather than demystifying anything in my experience. 

[electroBeam]

7 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@electroBeam I am partially concious of how and why I manifested Trump, you, and a the moon as much as I'd want to be. 

The trick is, that's not your agenda though isn't it  That's just you being you. So you can't really say you're manifesting and turning into some God with superpowers to control the dream, you're just being you. Like that why and how is just spontaneous. Its not like you need to do some visualization or LOA techniques or come up with some agenda to make that happen, you just are that. Not saying LOA techniques are useless, they are valuable, but the whole idea that you're manifesting shit using some magical LOA techniques... that's super fishy. 

8 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@electroBeam The appearance of influence and free will all just deepens the mystery.

Appearance of free will? ?

Well yeah its not truly free will, because you're tied down to feeling good and suffering. If it was true free will, you'd be free to do anything without being tied down by suffering and feeling good. You're given like pseudo free will, but not complete free will haha.

 

[AtheisticNonduality]

 

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, electroBeam said:

The trick is, that's not your agenda though isn't it  That's just you being you. 

Yeah, it's just me being me. Trump is just me being me. I really didn't want him to be president four years ago, but the universe couldn't hear the "didn't" part. Goddamn it. If I was writing a story, my characters would have lots of gray areas and deficiencies so I could highlight an unconditional love that transcends my brilliantly colorful characters. Guess what's happening? Just that. 

6 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

 

Well yeah its not truly free will, because you're tied down to feeling good and suffering. If it was true free will, you'd be free to do anything without being tied down by suffering and feeling good. You're given like pseudo free will, but not complete free will haha.

 

The book Man's Search for Meaning is the ultimate example of LOA in practice. The universe wants to push you to TRUE satisfaction, which is unconditional love. Go beyond the ideas of physical manifestation, suffering and feeling good and it becomes much clearer.

[electroBeam]

@mandyjw yeah i think what I've been trying to get at in this thread is a balance between accepting reality the way it is and manifesting what you want. Like Tony Robbins style LOA completely misses the accepting reality part. If you're a prisoner, no point imagining getting out and being on a million dollars. Because that's not what's happening now, and you're living in the future that way, best to just imagine and immerse yourself in the best possible outcome that could happen now. Which is basically what you were saying with "go beyond the ideas of physical manifestation, suffering and feeling good"

and obviously the best possible outcome is unconditional love lol. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by electroBeam

[Moksha]

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

The book Man's Search for Meaning is the ultimate example of LOA in practice. The universe wants to push you to TRUE satisfaction, which is unconditional love. Go beyond the ideas of physical manifestation, suffering and feeling good and it becomes much clearer.

One of my earliest and favorite books, along with Jonathan Livingston Seagull. Thing is, Frankl still had to survive the concentration camp. His suffering dissolved his ego, and he fully accepted the present moment, without giving up hope. He was Conscious, even in the camp, but he wasn't able to manifest himself out of the camp. Maybe the manifestation happened after his rescue, when he wrote the book. I guess the point is that we can, as Consciousness, suggest manifestations to ourselves, but ultimately, things happen as they must.

[mandyjw]

33 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@mandyjw yeah i think what I've been trying to get at in this thread is a balance between accepting reality the way it is and manifesting what you want.

There's no difference between the two when you get down to it. Nothing anyone needs to balance. 

34 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Like Tony Robbins style LOA completely misses the accepting reality part.

Some people start out with Jesus and some start with Tony. It's all good. "Ask, and it will be given to you."

 

35 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Because that's not what's happening now, and you're living in the future that way, best to just imagine and immerse yourself in the best possible outcome that could happen now.

Most already believe and accept that the past effects the now, but that the future does not. The future effects the now as much as the past. But because the future is unknown, we don't want to go there. We'll stick with the familiar even when it's awful. 

 

[mandyjw]

43 minutes ago, Moksha said:

One of my earliest and favorite books, along with Jonathan Livingston Seagull. Thing is, Frankl still had to survive the concentration camp. His suffering dissolved his ego, and he fully accepted the present moment, without giving up hope. He was Conscious, even in the camp, but he wasn't able to manifest himself out of the camp. Maybe the manifestation happened after his rescue, when he wrote the book. I guess the point is that we can, as Consciousness, suggest manifestations to ourselves, but ultimately, things happen as they must.

He manifested the entire book and experience as one seamless thing. He did manifest himself out of the camp, that's the whole point of the book, why did some perish and some survive? What is survival, what is life about, what is purpose? Man ifestation starts with a man. If you're gonna play the part of human you gotta learn to manifest to break the manifestation you believe you are.

Are we human? Or are we dancer? I mean.. manifester? Original thread title is right. It IS absurd. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by mandyjw

[Moksha]

16 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

He manifested the entire book and experience as one seamless thing. He did manifest himself out of the camp, that's the whole point of the book, why did some perish and some survive? What is survival, what is life about, what is purpose? Man ifestation starts with a man. If you're gonna play the part of human you gotta learn to manifest to break the manifestation you believe you are.

Are we human? Or are we dancer? I mean.. manifester? Original thread title is right. It IS absurd. 

Maybe his manifestation was to be in the camp, until he no longer needed to be in the camp. Consciousness is absurd that way. Why the hell did we even choose hell in the first place? 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Moksha