How to be a healthy vegan?

[Villager Albert]

@integral Building blocks of protein. Some foods have more amino acids per gram of protein than others.

[Michael569]

I think @integral already knew the answer already and was just teasing 

[Guest EmptyVase]

@Michael569 You seem very knowledgeable on topics around health & nutrition. I'm looking for foundational knowledge on nutrition. But there are so many conflating opinions on these topics, that I get really confused. I think the reason for that is, that every body needs it's own form of nutrition. But to know what my body needs, I need to learn about the basics: vitamins, proteins, calories, trace elements, and their sources (e.g. orange vs. vitamin c supplement), as well as the right quantities for my body. In this mini list I probably missed a whole lot of stuff, due to my very limited knowledge on the 'chemical' side of things. So anything I missed, I want to learn about that too!

Do you know any resources (preferably books and websites), which can give you a solid overview on these basics?

 

[Eren Eeager]

@Michael569 what do you think about phytic acid being present in legumes, seeds and nuts. Should I be worried about Iron and zinc not being absorbed into my body?

[integral]

42 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

I think @integral already knew the answer already and was just teasing 

haha yes, all these fancy words makes it feel like we know what we are talking about. 

[Giancarlo]

I second that replacing wheat with legumes has been a game changer for me. 

[Hello from Russia]

@Michael569 Very nice perspective on Soy products, thank you! Apreciate you sharing this

Doesn't your typical rice contain a ton of Arsenic (Organic rice included), though? I always have a brainfog after eating lots of rice, and to me it feels not as your typical Carb Loading brainfog but more like something heavy-metal related. It also usually doesn't go away as quickly as with other pure carb products (Like potatoes, gluten-free corn-based pasta, buckwheat, oats, gluten-free non-rice flour treats, etc)

Edited November 19, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Eren Eeager said:

what do you think about phytic acid being present in legumes, seeds and nuts. Should I be worried about Iron and zinc not being absorbed into my body?

Nah you're fine, phytic acid is actually not all that bad. It reduces the toxic effect of animal iron, improves blood sugar balance, protects your bones & even possibly reduces cancer risk Phytic acid is actually very protective although it can bind Zinc that's true. But to minimise it just cook those legumes really well until they are mushy 

1 hour ago, integral said:

haha yes, all these fancy words makes it feel like we know what we are talking about. 

Hehe indeed, well, I feel the same way about many "spirituality" discussion going on around here. 

@EmptyVase grab a generic nutrition book. See what's available in local book shop. Something a bit more academic and less sensational. You don't want anything biased towards veganism or paleo or Mediterranean. Maybe you need to order that kind of book but it should be more of a textbook and less of an attempt to manipulate you to follow a dogma. 

@Hello from Russiait could be the glycemic load of the rice especially if we are talking about the generic white rice, that can do that to you. If it was heavy metal overload, it will be constant night & day never changing brain fog although it may get worse during periods when liver is more active such as after waking up. If it is transient (comes 7 goes) then it is blood sugar related. Replace your rice with a better high fibre variation and see if that fixes it 

[Hello from Russia]

2 hours ago, neutralempty said:

@Hello from Russia Do you get brain fog from simple sugar foods too?

Yes, of course, but it usually goes away relatively quickly

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

it could be the glycemic load of the rice especially if we are talking about the generic white rice, that can do that to you. If it was heavy metal overload, it will be constant night & day never changing brain fog although it may get worse during periods when liver is more active such as after waking up. If it is transient (comes 7 goes) then it is blood sugar related. Replace your rice with a better high fibre variation and see if that fixes it 

Yeah, I see what you're trying to say. But it happens with brown/black rice too, to me. My research tells me the white rice has the least amount or Arsenic in it and then it usually goes uphill in a brown -> red -> black sequence. So you can get even more exposure of Arsenic off of it (Although the glycemic load will be much less) and it is generally what I feel.

Time-wise, It usually lasts for like 1-1.5 days, in my experience. And heavy glycemic loads for me usually last 2-4 hours and then it goes away (Unless I eat more stuff in the process).

I have a similar reaction after eating a good portion of fish. So I rationalized this might be related to heavy metals. With fish I can experience the same even without any carbs eaten with it (I don't count plant vegetable carbs)

I also noticed that if I've eaten this stuff and remained fairly physically active after the dinner, the symptoms are reduced like 80% (Although not completely), could probably be because detoxifying works faster with sweating

[Michael569]

@Hello from Russia Sounds quite complex, I agree from what you say that this will go beyond simple blood sugar dysregulation, may as well be a delayed onset immune reaction to antigens in the food passing through permeable intestinal walls but I can't really tell from the limited amount of info, would need to spend few hours asking questions. Any chance you can get food sensitivity testing done? 

9 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

It could be yeast overgrowth.

Yes this is also a possibility 

[Hello from Russia]

5 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

@Hello from Russia Sounds quite complex, I agree from what you say that this will go beyond simple blood sugar dysregulation, may as well be a delayed onset immune reaction to antigens in the food passing through permeable intestinal walls but I can't really tell from the limited amount of info, would need to spend few hours asking questions. Any chance you can get food sensitivity testing done? 

Yes this is also a possibility 

That's next in my list of checkups, as well as checking some vitamins

Got checked on Minerals and most heavy metals recently. All is in normal ranges and heavy metals are fine too, it showed only negligible amount (below lab ranges)

Will take a look into this yeast thing, thank you, man

Edited November 19, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Michael569]

1 minute ago, Hello from Russia said:

heavy metals are fine too,

how did they test this? what metals did they check? 

[Eren Eeager]

@Michael569 what do you think about cooking oils ? How bad are they? Why are they bad ln the first place? Because of omega 6 ?

What about palm oil? Full of vitamins and minerals and has low level of omega 6? It had been demonized because it is saturated. But from my research I know that saturated fats are not bad. I would like to hear your opinion.

[Michael569]

4 hours ago, Eren Eeager said:

what do you think about cooking oils ? How bad are they? Why are they bad ln the first place? Because of omega 6 ?

What about palm oil? Full of vitamins and minerals and has low level of omega 6? It had been demonized because it is saturated. But from my research I know that saturated fats are not bad. I would like to hear your opinion.

Oh man oils & fats are such gigantic & controversial topics! I can only tell you the results of my research (that comes with my own biases) and I know other people will have different opinions

Cooking oils 
For long time I believed that coconut is the best oil for cooking. I don't anymore. I have of course not read all the literature but from what I gathered, coconut oil has been linked to elevated LDL cholesterol & triglycerides and it has been linked to it in several of the largest systemic studies (we are talking tens of thousands of people data) and as such for me has no longer place in a healthy diet. (I am aware that most people won't agree with this statement, that's fine just presenting you my opinion) 

AT the moment I believe the best oil for cooking is Extra Virgin Olive oil but..... it has to be processed by mechanical means, without heat. Cold-pressed. Ideally from Italy or Greek Islands such as Corfu. It is important that it is delivered in glass bottle, dark and that it was not on the shelf forever. Never buy oils in plastic transparent bottles...oxidised lipid peroxides is what you get....bad, don't buy. 
The reason I believe EVOO is best because it contains the highest amount of protective polyphenols that kinda sacrifice themselves as you cook to catch the free radicals being produced so in a way the EVOO is protecting itself to be good for you even after you cooked on it. 

If you are vegan or want to be, it is possible you don't need to cook on oil at all once you stop eating meat. Use water if you are only making veggies, there is no need for oil if there is no steak there. Seriously water is brilliant for cooking, it just takes a bit longer and you need to add it sporadically to prevent burning. 

Palm Oil
I dunno too much about this one tbh. It was never attractive to me to research it but it is a plant oil with a lot of saturated fats. Don't know how prone it is to oxidation and I have a thing with palm oil after I saw how Borneo is getting fucked up with palm oil plantations so honest answer, don't really know but I will never use it in my kitchen

Omega 6s 
Yes this an issue if you use a ot of plant oils, most of them are Omega 6 heavy and if you don't have dietary sources of Omega 3s (lineseed oil, flax, chia, hemp seeds, oily fish, algal oil, walnuts) then you may tip the balance of Omega 6: Omega 3 too much and that can have some nasty consequences. Again for this reason I'm going back to above. If you have to cook on oil use EVOO, not a lot and not for too long. If you don't have to just use water. NEVER use cheap oils (e.g. sunflower, rapeseed) bought from large plastic bottles!!

If you want to dip your Omega 3: 6 balance add bit of lineseed oil to your diet. Cold pressed, from dark glass bottle, stored in dark cupboard, away from sun & heat, not toe be kept on shelf longer than 3 months. Also you may pre-grind bunch of flax seeds and just add them to your food

Saturated Fats
If there is one topic in nutrition that has been roasted and argued over like an inheritance in a poor family it is Saturated Fats and its effect on heart disease. I'm gonna say this, saturated fats on their own are probably not the cause of heart disease. They can however be a complication if the person already has other things out of balance (e.g. blood sugar, stress, toxicity, nutritional deficiencies, high homocysteine) and other factors that will contribute to heart disease risk & atherosclerosis. If your diet is very high in fibre & wholefoods, you can probably get away with eating more saturated fats than somebody who is avoiding plant foods. if your gut is healthy, it will absorb less of it and there is a huge genetic component on a lipid carrier called Apoliproteins, maybe you've seen these words (APOE2, ApoE3, ApoE4). If you are a carrier of single nuclear polymorphism (mutation) of ApoE4 your risk of dementia is increased 14-fold. For these people saturated fats is complete and utter disaster. Eating western diet while being ApoE4 is equal to stuffing wax down your veins. 

Another thing with saturated fats is that those consume from animal sources come together with the animal cholesterol which is often oxidised by the time you have fried that steak for 30 minutes on some cheap plant oil and behaves as a free radical. So the bigger risk is now arterial damage from all the free radicals and all the carcinogens. Not to mention oxidised iron in the gut is as toxic as eating charred wood. 

Saturated fats are somewhat needed in tiny amounts for your cell fuidity but you'll get those amounts from nuts, seeds and an occasional egg if you like that. In my opinion you don't need them and most people consume too much of them as it is. 

Again, all just my opinion. Hope that's helpful

 

[Average Investor]

7 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

If you are vegan or want to be, it is possible you don't need to cook on oil at all once you stop eating meat. Use water if you are only making veggies, there is no need for oil if there is no steak there. Seriously water is brilliant for cooking, it just takes a bit longer and you need to add it sporadically to prevent burning. 

I have not cooked with oil in a few years. I think it is a huge misconception by most that that oils are needed. Even oven baking and stuff has never been an issue. It is slightly annoying if something gets stuck to a pan, but it works fine. I actually had a point where I eliminated all oils entirely and it was not an issue. Even making things like sweet potato fries it is not needed at all. I cook on glass in the oven typically too. 

@Michael569 What do you think about coconut oil without cooking it? I have some in my vitamin D. I considered changing what I have anyway, but I choose coconut oil as I figured it was one of the better. I see them with extra virgin olive oil too. I use it for my skins as well if it is dry. 

 

 @Eren Eeager The only oil I have is flaxseed oil and and algae oil. Super small amount of cocnut oil in my vitamin D I seem to like it quite a bit so far. 

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Average Investor said:

What do you think about coconut oil without cooking it? I have some in my vitamin D. I considered changing what I have anyway, but I choose coconut oil as I figured it was one of the better. I see them with extra virgin olive oil too. I use it for my skins as well if it is dry. 

That's probably just MCT extract right, I think that's the good part of coconut oil. Coconut is perfect for skin, or any skin fungal infection as well. I use it as a moisturiser during winter. 

1 hour ago, Average Investor said:

I have not cooked with oil in a few years. I think it is a huge misconception by most that that oils are needed. Even oven baking and stuff has never been an issue. It is slightly annoying if something gets stuck to a pan, but it works fine. I actually had a point where I eliminated all oils entirely and it was not an issue. Even making things like sweet potato fries it is not needed at all. I cook on glass in the oven typically too. 

Yeah, it's a nice hack I learned during my vegan times  most foods do not need oil to cook. The same way you don't need to start your cooking with onion lol. 
 

[integral]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

Palm Oil

Would stay far away from palm oil, causes major inflammation in my experience. With all the good options we have its best to just avoid this one. 

[Loving Radiance]

What would a high fat vegan diet look like? Tons of avocados, walnuts & linseed oil?

 

@Michael569

[Michael569]

@Loving Radiance something like that yeah, hard to imagine it being very enjoyable or particularly healthy thou

[Village]

There are no healthy vegans.

If you want to somehow get by for a few years until it becomes unbearable for the sake of an ideology - OK, but if you're after optimal health - just forget about veganism.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Village