MBTI - I need help

[Carl-Richard]

I have no idea what the difference is between Ne and Ni. I've read atleast 10 explanations for it and I still don't understand the distinction. I primarily want specific real-life examples that can illustrate the differences rather than some more explanations (a way that I can create a picture in my mind of how it works). Thanks! :)))

Edited November 14, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[lmfao]

Ne is divergent creativity which acts spontaneously. You can jump from domain to domain instantly, connecting the dots. You can jump from place to place, tendency to go on tangents and present a million angles to look at something. 

Ne will go from the few to the many. It diverges, and it isn't trying to reach a definitive conclusion. And just connects the dots and sees the connections "for what they are", the "for what they are" attitude being the attitude of extroversion as extroversion sees itself as not letting introversion/"subjectivity" distort its perception of things. 

Ne see things as networks of connections. A spider web. It can flip between different metaphysics, flip between different ways of connecting the dots.

Downsides of Ne can include adhd, instability, out of control mind like a tornado, bipolar tendencies, inability to stay on topic, insincerity, schizophrenic paranoia and delusional beliefs through conspiratorial thinking. It can make false connections between things and make up the most outlandish pieces of bullshit stories. 

For ENTPs. Resorting to winning a debate by overwhelming you with a large volume of shit from so many different angles that you don't know how to respond. If you can speak in 5 fallacies per minute whilst your opponent can only debunk at a rate if 2 fallacies per minute, you win to the audience. 

I know all this because I use Ne a lot and I recognise it in others. 

 

Now to talk about Ni. I'm an INTP, so this is less familiar for me. But Ni is amazing, it's paranormal and extraordinary with a genius. I've seen it in INFJs. 

Ne creates a spider web of connections between dots. However, Ne is often very superficial in its extroverted nature. You can argue it makes superficial or obvious links. 

Ni on the other hand, it can make the most profound and earth shattering insights into things. It can crystallise a myriad of different things and see their common essence. It is in this way that it's more conclusive than Ne. 

It can notice things that no one else notices, get an insight into the unifying theme behind things. As an introverted function, it involves the subject more. It can make extremely large and insightful connections and jumps in abstraction thanks to this. 

Ni is the type of thing where someone will drop a one liner or give you one concept that will completely flip your perspective and understanding of something. 

It's this weird, ethereal, advanced deep intelligence. Psychic and mystical. It is imaginative and come up with things out of nowhere. Carl Jung is a genius Ni user for example. 

 

Ni feels psychic. It can predict the future and trajectory of things with someone who's talented. My INFJ friend in high school had this uncanny sixth sense to just know exactly how a situation would unfold. Feels a bit creepy and scary. 

A potential downside of Ni is closed mindedness and gross misunderstanding of a person or situation by making the weirdest and craziest mental jumps. Ni can be very judgemental, and it's hard to change an Ni users mind 

 

Ne users on the other hand, they are the most open minded people out there on average. 

 

Also, secondary Ni users are fake intuitives. ENTJ and ENFJ hardly pass as Ni users. INTJ users can be good. 

But most of what I typed above only applies to INFJ Ni users. And a couple of INTjs. The rest of them are crap. ENTJs and ENFJs are effectively just sensors. 

 

I'm honestly not sure if ENTJs and ENFJs even have Ni. I know it goes against all the mbti theory, but idgaf. If you get what I mean then you get what I mean. They are not intuitives, they are glorified sensors. I'm not sure they even have Ni. All I see is their dom function + Se, sorry. 

 

ENTJ and ENFJ have none of the psychic qualities of Ni, they have an extremely very weak version of it. But it's just strong enough that they end up being closed minded and dumb. 

The difference between a dom and secondary Ni user is night vs day 

Edited November 14, 2020 by lmfao

[Carl-Richard]

I'm still just not ok with MBTI in general. Nothing really makes sense to me.

[lmfao]

@Khr hahaha pretty much 

[Carl-Richard]

On another note, would it be correct to say that meditation strengthens sensor functions in a way? I used to be immersed in wild ideas 24/7 but nowadays I can barely think a thought even if my life depended on it. My internal world is off most of the time, but I like to believe that the content of my thoughts have remained basically the same (probably mostly Ne). At the same time, being more aware of my surroundings does have an effect on the content aswell.

[lmfao]

@Carl-Richard As well as being preferences, the functions are also kinda like intelligences imo. With each function having a different type of intelligence you could say.

But that said, I'm not sure about the mindfulness thing. I try not to make strong claims about it. But that said. Se users often have an advantage in sport due to "being in tune with the present moment" and having control over their bodies. But I wouldn't be justified in then jumping to saying Se users have an advantage in all facets of mindfulness and consciousness and etc, because that isn't true. Your "degree of enlightenment" can be quite apart from your personality. 

And it might not be that Se users are strictly "more in tune with the present moment" but that they hold a very particular kind of relationship with the present moment that, due to lack of better words,  we imprecisely describe as "being in the present moment". Se users are a tautological reference point for what being in the present moment means to most people, which isn't necessarily good. But there is some truth to it. 

Imo, enlightenment does and doesn't change your personality at the same time ( What I'm saying in this post isn't important at all for becoming enlightenment, this is just random side talk, want to clarify. This is just opinions). 

Quote

Before I sought enlightenment, the mountains were mountains and the rivers were rivers.
While I sought enlightenment, the mountains were not mountains and the rivers were not rivers.
After I reached satori, the mountains were mountains and the rivers were rivers.

A tree is a tree, before and after enlightenment. Your psychology is your psychology, before and after enlightenment (well it is the same , but not the same at the same time; it's the troupe in stories of the hero's journey coming full circle. You arrive in the same place you started, but something has changed.)

You can't aim to go in a circle. You have to aim to go forward and change yourself, and by happenstance you do a circle of sorts.

Edited November 15, 2020 by lmfao

[Shin]

16 hours ago, Khr said:

@lmfao lol, your description of INFJ made me laugh and reminded me of a meme 

 

So accurate

 

 

 

[Username]

When talking Ne is jumping from one topic to another (and back). Ni isn't.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Username said:

When talking Ne is jumping from one topic to another (and back). Ni isn't.

Hmm that's a good one.

[Carl-Richard]

22 hours ago, Pookie said:

They're both abstract cognitive functions. But Ne is more scattered and bounces from one idea to the next. You could say it appears more random and divergent. Its focus is more on breadth than on depth. Ni, on the other hand, prefers to penetrate into one single topic deeply. It is more narrow and focused. 

I think this guy is a great example of Ni (apparently he is INFJ):

"I decided I just... I didn't wanna die thinking about what could've been." 14:57

Very calm, insightful, focused. Absolute creative genius (basically single-handedly pioneered the genre of progressive extreme metal).

Edited November 17, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

One thing I find interesting is people who criticize MBTI by saying "I don't believe you can describe all the differences between people with only 16 personalities, but you do you", while at the same time having no problem with describing themselves using just a few words. I think it stems from a naive epistemic relationship to scientific models where confusion about utility and accuracy is the norm.

People in that boat most likely believe that physics has basically gotten all the answers, just give it another 10-20 years. It's this attachment to the doctrine of logical positivism that elevates the natural sciences above everything else, and all things outside of that framework are seen as inferior and incomplete. In a sense, it's therefore actually liberating to see the limitations of all models, because then you actually come to appreciate a broader set of models.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Giancarlo]

One way to see it is that Ne thinks outside of the box, while Ni thinks about the box itself.

 

On 11/14/2020 at 11:45 AM, lmfao said:

Ni is the type of thing where someone will drop a one liner or give you one concept that will completely flip your perspective and understanding of something. 

 

I definitely agree with this as an INTJ.

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Giancarlo said:

One way to see it is that Ne thinks outside of the box, while Ni thinks about the box itself.

That made no sense to me ngl 

[Arthur]

It's difficult to describe one function by itself. Usually, there is a pair of dominant functions that work hand in hand to create a type.

Both are intuitive functions. Ne is all about possibilities and potential. When Ne looks at something, it immediately sees all the possible scope for what this thing could have been, and what it is currently not. It's all about diversity, novelty and variety. Actualized is a good example of Ne. It incorporated lots of novelty and coverts many topics. Ne users see hidden meanings and make seemingly unusual interconnections, which makes them naturally metaphysical.

Ni is introverted intuition, it's all about time, specifically past and future. it sees everything as a process unfolding in time. Ni users are excellent at learning from past mistakes and predicting the future. Ni types are very intuitive, they like to daydream, and can appear distant at times. They usually know the exact right time to do something - minimum action maximum impact. Ni users have an excellent imagination, they can maneuver any situation with minimal input data. They have amazing deductions skills.

Both functions are concerned with time. Ni stretches the timeline in both directions. Ne stretches the present moment frame and fills it with possibilities and potential.