"The perceiver never existed" ...what?

[The0Self]

5 minutes ago, arlin said:

Is this what is meant by the phrase: "there is perception, but nothing is dependent upon perception"

"There is the body, but nothing is dependent upon the body"

What does this mean? Don't know if actually it's tha tim not english so i can't understand it but would you explain it further?

 

Hmm. I don't know. What arises dependent upon conditions does not actually arise though. They only appear to.

But those quoted phrases don't mean anything to me.

An object needs consciousness. Consciousness needs an object. They have no independent existence. Everything is leaning on a vacuum of nothing.

[Someone here]

26 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

Why do you assume the perceiver can’t be a perception? Of course you can perceive the perceiver. Perception is all there is!

What perceiver? 

[The0Self]

6 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

Object can exist without there being consciousness.

Not an object that is perceived subjectively, which is the only object worth talking about. There's nothing objective.

Not to mention all there is is consciousness (or whatever you want to call it; it certainly isn't an object by any means though).

Edited November 14, 2020 by The0Self

[arlin]

5 minutes ago, The0Self said:

An object needs consciousness. Consciousness needs an object.

so there is no separation here, is this something you realize in your direct experience?

if so how did you do it?

[The0Self]

Just now, arlin said:

so there is no separation here, is this something you realize in your direct experience?

if so how did you do it?

Yes.

Contemplation, meditation, seeking, suffering, psychedelics, etc.

[from chaos into self]

You can never prove that objects don’t exist without being perceived. It is implied. But you can’t prove it exists either. What a dilemma

 

 I swear the perceiver exists! But it appears to be no object.

But I perceive and I am.

This just leads to the question what am I?

 

edit: I am consciousness. All experience is consciousness. The perceiver is illusory, does it even exist? I am the perceiver, and I exist. But I am no object, Unless, I am every object..... to perceive is to be a perceiver.

Edited November 14, 2020 by from chaos into self

[Someone here]

@from chaos into self you are everything and nothing. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Someone here

[from chaos into self]

This is a mindfuck

[arlin]

33 minutes ago, The0Self said:

meditation

What kind of meditation?

Is it permanent for you? this realization? lived 24/h?

[The0Self]

21 minutes ago, arlin said:

What kind of meditation?

Is it permanent for you? this realization? lived 24/h?

No idea if it’s permanent, it’s not really a state though. There’s just what seems to be happening. I can get into some pretty awesome states if I choose to but I usually don’t these days. I did the other day though — inclined my mind to have an experience of nothingness, for instance, via the 7th jhana.

Many different kinds. Started meditating 20 minutes at a time, then did The Mind Illuminated, then some of Kenneth Folk’s teachings, then read Rob Burbea’s Seeing That Frees (probably my favorite). I’m not enlightened. It’s all just experiences. There was an apparent collapse of the individual but I can’t say anything I did caused it to happen, and I can’t even tell you when it happened.

Oh yeah and I forgot to mention self inquiry. That probably provoked the most change.

Edited November 14, 2020 by The0Self

[Someone here]

26 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

This is a mindfuck

Is it? 

[arlin]

5 minutes ago, The0Self said:

There was an apparent collapse of the individual but I can’t say anything I did caused it to happen, and I can’t even tell you when it happened.

I resonate with this in the sense that there is a recognition here that the self is illusory. Thoughts and emotions are not "mine", they just happen. (as well as decisions thus free will)

"I" live in a constant state of no free will.

It has been very scary but now im learning to be comfortable with it... to let everything happen but it's with me 24/H.

I just asked you because i just want to know if there is more and what to expect.

9 minutes ago, The0Self said:

The Mind Illuminated

This is basically vipassana.

[Moksha]

41 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

This is a mindfuck

Finally 

[Member]

Funny how everything is just empty talk. You have no clue what reality is.

[Moksha]

I would say you have a clue what reality is, since you are reality, but only when you directly realize yourself as Consciousness. It has nothing to do with thinking, beliefs, or knowledge.

[VeganAwake]

Love this.

Where do you go when it's recognized the one seeking for answers is ultimately unreal.

It leaves no leg to stand on and then it becomes WHAT IS!

[Member]

10 minutes ago, Moksha said:

I would say you have a clue what reality is, since you are reality, but only when you directly realize yourself as Consciousness. It has nothing to do with thinking, beliefs, or knowledge.

When there is a division between you and reality, you can talk about consciousness all day because at the end of the day, you're still unconscious.

So try again, Yoda.

[Shin]

2 minutes ago, Member said:

When there is a division between you and reality, you can talk about consciousness all day because at the end of the day, you're still unconscious.

So try again, Yoda.

Because that tone isn't implying a division ?

?

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Member said:

When there is a division between you and reality, you can talk about consciousness all day because at the end of the day, you're still unconscious.

So try again, Yoda.

When you are awake, there is no division between you and reality. You recognize the Consciousness that is You, and that infuses everything else. May The Force be with You.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Moksha

[Nahm]