Day Trading

[AdamDiC]

I'm trying to move out of my parents house because I'm sick of it and want to live alone or with a friend to focus more on my life.

My dad is a day trader and he does pretty well for himself, although he gets pretty angry at times what he makes in a day could pay a months rent for me.

So I was thinking, I should start day trading and move out.

Has anyone tried this before? I think I can do it. I have the capital.

Just starting a conversation. I know it's like the least conscious way to make money but honestly I'm just trying to move out to focus on consciousness work and personal dev, and my LP.

[Leo Gura]

Dumb idea. You're gonna lose all your money.

It's a bad strategy to try to earn money by adding zero value to the world.

[7thLetter]

Ask your dad if he can teach you

[tsuki]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a bad strategy to try to earn money by adding zero value to the world.

@Leo Gura I've been interested in this for some time and I was not able to crack it.
I was thinking that since day traders actually make money, then it must mean that they add value to the world and I was wondering what that value was. Now I am open to the possibility that it is my capitalist ideology screwing my thinking up and that I had this backwards. Is value strictly subjective and nothing more than a need based on survival? But then, the highest value would be transcending survival altogether, which is so ahead of the curve that practically nobody even considers it as something to aspire to. So creating a business and providing value is strictly relative to what people consider to be desirable and is about feeding them the things that they want?

That sounds very misaligned with the idea of life purpose. 

If I want to create something and I know that it's my highest calling, then that is relative to me and fulfilling my own needs. Obviously, I can't just create stuff for its own sake because I need food, so that thing has to be valued by others. Not only that, but valued for what it really is, not marketed as something else that they want because that would be very unsatisfying for the creator. 

I guess that there is no silver bullet in bridging high and low consciousness. That sounds like a good life purpose for a coach out there :).

[Yarco]

Most investment pros can't outperform the market. You're better off putting your money into an index than any particular fund in most cases.

If people who invest for a living, have degrees in finance and economics from prestigious institutions, and work for big companies like JP Morgan can't do it, what makes you think that you can?

Ask to see all of your dad's trades for the last 6 months or a year. Not just his big wins, ALL OF THEM including all the trades where he lost money, and net it out. See how much he's actually making in the long-term. Maybe he does have some working system. But don't take even your own dad's word for it without really looking at the math. Especially if you're going to put all your savings into it.

You'd probably be better off learning how to play online poker instead. It involves learning less math and statistics, less variables and faster to learn, and both stocks and poker have an element of randomness/luck/gambling to them as well as some skill component that may allow you to slightly tilt the odds in your favor. In the long run you're at risk of busting out from both of them.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Yarco

[Kalki Avatar]

@AdamDiC Dont listen to what ppl say here. You have your dad as proof making money there, right? Thats enough. I have lot of friends who live off it. You dont have to aim to be millionaire. Start small and making decent money will be enough to give you good freedom.  

Thou it might take at least 2 years of good practice, depending on your learning rate and intensity to build some mastery over it and get the freedom.  All the info is on the Internet, you just gotta know how to look for it. Focus on the simulator and testing strategies for at least 1 month before putting real money. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Kalki Avatar

[Lews Therin]

there are manyy researches that say that between 90 aand 95% of traders lose more money than you get, so i wouldn't risk, better to learn something else.

And about the question of value offer. Amongst long term investors we say that the value of traders for society is that the give liquidity for the market. In other words, a trader, who is just looking at the market tendencys and not the real value of a company, is the only person who will be willing to sell some asset when the price is very low, beacuse of his focus on the short term.

So the value of traders is that they sell stocks for a low price when the market is bad so the long term investors can buy cheap.

Aside from that no, there is no value being created.

[The0Self]

The vast majority of traders lose money. Try conscious investing maybe. There's a podcast called InvestEd and an associated website (the guy's name is Phil Town) that goes pretty in depth on how you can do this effectively. Seems to be a pretty stand up guy -- used to be a river guide for decades or something and then got quite wealthy just investing and apparently he only started with like $5k. Now he teaches people how to do it, mostly for free.

[Guest SirVladimir]

3 hours ago, Lews Therin said:

between 90 and 95% of traders lose more money than you get, so i wouldn't risk, better to learn something else.

"Between 90 and 95% of seekers don't reach enlightenment, so I wouldn't risk it. Better to do something else."

Yet here we are. What makes a difference is the approach we take.

Instead of victimizing yourself and blaming a statistic, discover what these people are doing wrong.

Suddenly, it's not a 5% success rate but more like a 100%.

@AdamDiC Ask your dad for guidance. Careful, though, as stress and anger may grow on you. Especially day trading is soul-consuming. I'd be interested to hear what your dad uses as a trading strategy, purely for educational purposes. Maybe send me a PM. It's better than discussing it here in public. Personally, it took me 2 years until I found a strategy which is based on volatility and probability... and works. Still, I don't see myself doing swing trading (which is way more chill than day trading) full-time because it feels like a bad drug; I'm so disconnected from my values, so away from artistry and exploration. Maybe if I had more capital. 

So weight your cards properly. Your LP can't wait to receive a hug from you! 

Edited November 14, 2020 by SirVladimir

[Lews Therin]

1 hour ago, SirVladimir said:

"Between 90 and 95% of seekers don't reach enlightenment, so I wouldn't risk it. Better to do something else."

Yet here we are. What makes a difference is the approach we take.

False equivalency. reaching for enlightenment doesn't make you lose things that you need to sustain yourself, at least, in the great majority of cases. So there is pretty much no down

As for day-trading, it does have a downside, one that can be pretty big. As you said it, it's like a drug, and it takes time to learn, so it's time to get hooked.

Of course, if you feel like doing, just go and do it, but people need to be aware that there will always be many risks beyond their awareness.

[integral]

Day trading is very stressful. 

[Kalki Avatar]

@integral Yup. Its not what ppl thinks.

Unless you are pretty good at it, passionate, enjoy the game overall, above money itself, like to analyze and read alot, then its cool. You gotta see it more like a video game in which you have fun, than a job that pays. 

On the other hand, you gotta be extremely ambitious, greedy and even needy to force yourself to make it. I know a couple of guys like this. They stress me out to just be in their presence. 

Better start swing trading (dabbling) or just investing long term. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Kalki Avatar