unhealthy thinking - advise hugely appreciated

[levani]

more often than not I have  various frightening thoughts through out the day/night from horror movies and from darkness.

I also have a fear of "monsters under my bed" ∴ my feet must be wrapped up in the cover for the "monsters" not to attack my feet and i've recently faced this one for some minutes in a row and tried to be aware of the fear in my body/sensations.

The fear of darkness i have not faced yet, i keep procrastinating. Any advise ?

The real question i have for you guys is how do i stop being scared of / thinking about for example "the nun" being in the next room waiting for me / or upstairs in the dark room, without having to run to turn the lights on.

I'm male and in my mid twenties if that matters.

I won't be offended if you tell me to see a psychologist but i feel like reading a book or two about this could do more benefit ? What are your thoughts ?

also THIS is the exact reason why i am afraid to do meditation / psychedelics, ∵ i know they "blow up" the internal state of mind, and as you can see mine is a bit messed up right now, so any advise on this as well would be hugely appreciated.

Edited November 12, 2020 by levani

[tsuki]

Just to make sure, are you perhaps watching a lot of horror movies, or reading horror stories?

Reading books about the topic will not be much help, I'm afraid. In my experience, these kinds of thoughts may come up as a way to distract you from something that you don't want to experience. They lessen when you get to the bottom of what that is and let go of beliefs about it. Therapist may help you in that discovery if you can't find it on your own.

Trauma is also a possibility. Is there any pattern to the arising of these thoughts? Do they come up in similar situations, in response to something? That's a good starting point for contemplation.

[levani]

@tsuki they always come up when I am alone basically, and also alone in darkness, I even think I would be okay in complete darkness as long as I have someone else there with me. It is traumatic as fuck and it is keeping me (or at least I think it is) from meditating and psychedelics, i am afraid these thoughts may actualise and haunt me and put me in pain for however long of time. 

Right now during day time I couldn't care less about it. I think it's just from the horror films like conjuring, watching them in the cinema was a massive mistake for me, i couldn't handle it

so what now ? i watched leo's episode on fear, how it is all basically imaginary, but imaginary itself is a duality so what's real really ?

[tsuki]

@levani What is your relationship with spiritual practices? Why do these thoughts come up in relation to them?

Also, are you comfortable being alone when you are not thinking about spirituality, psychedelics, etc?

Have you tried psychedelics before? What do you believe about psychedelics and meditation to be true without prior experience of it?

[Nahm]

10 hours ago, levani said:

The fear of darkness i have not faced yet, i keep procrastinating. Any advise ?

Stand next to the light switch and turn it on and off until you’re laughing at your own nonsense. It’ll feel great!

10 hours ago, levani said:

also THIS is the exact reason why i am afraid to do meditation / psychedelics, ∵ i know they "blow up" the internal state of mind, and as you can see mine is a bit messed up right now, so any advise on this as well would be hugely appreciated.

Being wrong, or rather, realizing you were, is actually awesome. It’s a hilarious relief. The instant it is recognized you are thinking precisely how you want to, you are free. Just sort of admit to yourself you actually like the ‘fear’, which is why you watch what you do, think what you do, talk about what you do (like this post). If you didn’t like it you wouldn’t choose it. You’ve never not been in control. 

[levani]

@tsuki the only "relation" to spiritual practices i have is the knowledge of them, no experience or realisation yet, i am just taking precautions to not perjure myself, or if it sounds better I am researching if I am developed enough / mature enough to do meditation/psychedelics without freaking myself out.

I am comfortable being alone with my laptop, i never actually stop "doing" things, i have not tried just "being" ∵ to me that is meditation and i want to make sure i am ready for it.

What i believe about psychedelics is that they alter your state of consciousness and give you some answers, depends how you use them under which setting, etc. i believe from research psychedelics REFLECT inner thoughts, and mine sometimes are dark and scary and i dont want them to actualise under meditation/psychedelics, ∴ i want to see if you guys can recommend me to either remove them via psychologist or whatever other method.

[tsuki]

@levani Did I get this right? Are you in constant activity because you are afraid of slowing down and experiencing these scary thoughts?

10 minutes ago, levani said:

REFLECT inner thoughts, and mine sometimes are dark and scary and i dont want them to actualise under meditation/psychedelics

Tell me these scary thoughts. Just let them out for me please. 

10 minutes ago, levani said:

I am researching if I am developed enough / mature enough to do meditation/psychedelics without freaking myself out.

Do you have any history of "freaking out" without meditation/psychedelics? 

10 minutes ago, levani said:

i want to see if you guys can recommend me to either remove them via psychologist or whatever other method.

These thoughts are not to be removed, but experienced in a safe environment. Therapy is not a surgery that will cut your tumor out. It is alright to have all kinds of thoughts, even the scary ones and it does not imply anything about you as a person.

Edited November 12, 2020 by tsuki

[levani]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

Stand next to the light switch and turn it on and off until you’re laughing at your own nonsense. It’ll feel great!

HAHAHAHA i love that, i will try that, do i have to be scared already (in that state) or do i do it in a state where i am not scared (e.g. when the sun goes down and it's not completely dark) ?

 

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

You’ve never not been in control. 

how do you know ? your perception is not my perception, and THAT'S the thing that scares me, is that some scary character for example like "the nun" will be in the next door and she will take away all of my control via her powers and i will only be able to see out of my eyes and hear out of my ears and just be there paralysed, like in sleep paralysis - so how do i overcome that ?

 

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

The instant it is recognized you are thinking precisely how you want to, you are free. Just sort of admit to yourself you actually like the ‘fear’, which is why you watch what you do, think what you do, talk about what you do (like this post). If you didn’t like it you wouldn’t choose it. You’ve never not been in control. 

How do i recognise that ? you have a book ? or what must I do ? the actual light switch flickering ?
What do you mean sort of admit to myself that i like the fear ? i f****** hate it so much - i feel like it's limiting me (even though i think i know it isn't true)
"If you didn’t like it you wouldn’t choose it" - i am doing it ∵ I want to overcome it, not ∵ i like it .. (i think?)

[levani]

3 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@levani Did I get this right? Are you in constant activity because you are afraid of slowing down and experiencing these scary thoughts?

yes, if i slow down and meditate i am afraid that these negative thoughts may come up and "∵" i slowed that they would come true, for exmaple if i hear a noise in the next room, if it actually happened or if it is my mind playing tricks on me, either or. Or ∵ i've read / also leo said that you can fall into depression and also into the dark night of the soul as well after some time of meditating and i simple don't want to experience that ∵ i have too many responsibilities in my life so what if all that depersonalisation and this "lost in the eternal void" fucks me up ?

6 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Tell me these scary thoughts. Just let them out for me please. 

okay, say that some scary character for example like "the nun" will be in the next door and she will take away all of my control via her powers and i will only be able to see and hear and just be there paralysed while she is horrifying me, floating on top of me or whatever, like in sleep paralysis basically.

 

7 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Do you have any history of "freaking out" without meditation/psychedelics? 

yes, sleep paralysis, and i've also always had fear of the dark, and spiders used to scary the shit out of me before too, and "monsters" under my bed, even though i would look there and see nothing, i'd still be scared if i stood up it would not be below the bed but behind me or on top of the bed by the time i get up or something like this. I am a wet wipe when it comes to this, i know, that's why i'm working towards getting rid of it.

 

10 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@levaniThese thoughts are not to be removed, but experienced in a safe environment. Therapy is not a surgery that will cut your tumor out.

what do you mean by removed, everyone keeps saying that but i don't understand, eventually i just think about something else anyway ? so they are removed automatically, do you mean to experience them while i am thinking about them and are scared of them ?

explain what you mean by safe environment ? do you mean to have a spotter ? if yes then that's the thing, i am not scared when i am with someone, i am scared when I am alone for some reason, ∴ how do i practice these "safely"? 

[tsuki]

You keep using this symbol "∵" or "∴" in your writing. What do they mean?

______________

If meditation freaks you out so much, why are you drawn to it?

I mean, there are all sorts of techniques and not all are about not-doing anything. For example, there are mindfulness techniques that have you recognize (label) various aspects of your experience that fill your awareness spontaneously. This could be beneficial for you because your imagination seems to be very active and you're having trouble distinguishing what you think from what is actually happening. Are you getting this? These are your thoughts about possible scenarios, not things actually happening. When you are scared, it's difficult to see the difference and mindfulness meditation can help you keep that understanding.

Other techniques develop focus so that your attention can rest on an object effortlessly and these thoughts won't arise spontaneously. There are also meditations that develop equanimity, which will let you actually be okay with having these thoughts.

28 minutes ago, levani said:

yes, sleep paralysis, and i've also always had fear of the dark, and spiders used to scary the shit out of me before too, and "monsters" under my bed, even though i would look there and see nothing, i'd still be scared if i stood up it would not be below the bed but behind me or on top of the bed by the time i get up or something like this. I am a wet wipe when it comes to this, i know, that's why i'm working towards getting rid of it.

Give me another example, another story.

28 minutes ago, levani said:

what do you mean by removed, everyone keeps saying that but i don't understand, eventually i just think about something else anyway ? so they are removed automatically, do you mean to experience them while i am thinking about them and are scared of them ?

explain what you mean by safe environment ? do you mean to have a spotter ? if yes then that's the thing, i am not scared when i am with someone, i am scared when I am alone for some reason, ∴ how do i practice these "safely"? 

These thoughts may come to remind you of something important that you have repressed, or forgotten. To experience them is to get to the bottom of it, to understand, for yourself, why you are having them. When you do, you will have a different relationship to them. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by tsuki

[levani]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

You keep using this symbol "∵" or "∴" in your writing. What do they mean?

∴ = therefore
∵ = becausee

there is no other scary thoughts really, these are the only ones, just being attacked by a horror movie character or some evil entity roaming around upstairs in the dark, making me scared by picking up and dropping things on purpose, not leaving me alone for the sake it being evil. or something like this, that example hasn't actually happened but sometimes if i hear a sound in another room i always have a microfear/fear.

 

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

If meditation freaks you out so much, why are you drawn to it?

I am not sure if meditation freaks me out, i have never tried it properly, i am just being wary of the side effects it might produce, and according to some somewhat reliable sources, apparently there are a lot od these negative side effects which I am just getting ready for or trying to get ready for by asking you/the forum these questions, i want to be ready if something bad happens so that i know how to get out of it.

 

[levani]

and since meditation reflects inner thoughts outwards, then i just want to make sure my psychology is healthy before pursuing something like this.

someone gave me the analogy that it is dangerous to cross the road too but people do it <-- this is horseshit ∵ the safety levels are way waaay off, % risk is way higher with meditation in my mind than crossing a road. but if you wanna use this analogy i am simply looking left and right right now before crossing the road.

[Loving Radiance]

@levani  Try out this guided meditation and tell me how you feel afterwards.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Loving Radiance

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, levani said:

HAHAHAHA i love that, i will try that, do i have to be scared already (in that state) or do i do it in a state where i am not scared (e.g. when the sun goes down and it's not completely dark) ?

Anytime you want to feel more lighthearted about things & see the sillier side of yourself. 

Quote

how do you know ? your perception is not my perception, and THAT'S the thing that scares me, is that some scary character for example like "the nun" will be in the next door and she will take away all of my control via her powers and i will only be able to see out of my eyes and hear out of my ears and just be there paralysed, like in sleep paralysis - so how do i overcome that ?

By imagining something else. Something you like. 

Quote

How do i recognise that ?

Focusing on relaxing your entire body while breathing from the stomach. “Oh that’s just a thought!” occurs in a relaxed body with a clear head.

Quote

you have a book ? or what must I do ? the actual light switch flickering ?

Be lighthearted about it. Relax, breathe. There’s probably a light switch close by now. 

Quote

What do you mean sort of admit to myself that i like the fear ? i f****** hate it so much - i feel like it's limiting me (even though i think i know it isn't true)

I agree. The mind sometimes weaves a story to “make logical sense” of feeling which is bottled up. Released, the body & mind are more calm, and focus is natural.  It is difficult to focus & hold back emotion at the same time. Impossible, maybe. 

Quote

"If you didn’t like it you wouldn’t choose it" - i am doing it ∵ I want to overcome it, not ∵ i like it .. (i think?)

Let go of the perspective “I want to overcome it”. There’s nothing there to over come. 

I’d stop telling the story of ‘my mind’ and or ‘how I am’, etc...and focus more on expressing how you feel, feeling into feelings & the body. Writing & any creative expressing is most helpful. Relaxation practices like meditation are helpful in being able to relax and breathe, and feel emotions coming up and going out. The “internal state of mind” is pure Goodness btw. Which is why some perspectives clearly don’t resonate. Pick better feeling thoughts about yourself. Allow some evidence of truth to be as simple as, feels-good. Knowing this Goodness within you, in feeling, it becomes clearer and clearer why some thoughts about you are in discord (not accurate at all / do not resonate / don’t feel good).

[Cireeric]

Exposure Therapy. Face your fear in little steps and get slowly used to it and more brave. Watch yourself while facing and feeling the fear carefully, dont resist it.

[hyruga]

Read powerful book like The Power of Now.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by hyruga

[arlin]

@levani I have the same problem. Im aware that it's a trauma from the past.