Are beliefs stronger than direct experience?

[Frenk]

Take the most religious people on earth. And give them dmt. Would their beliefs change after the trip? I don't think so (maybe not all, but some have unshakeable levels of belief). I know people that if you'd put a gun in their head and say change your beliefs or i'll kill you they would say kill me. Does this make a belief stronger than actual experience?

[No Self]

Belief is the most powerful motivator, especially when paired with deep unconsciousness. When people have to choose between their children and their religion/beliefs, they typically choose the latter without hesitation. Direct experience is easily dismissed, unlike the mind.

As a segue, there is a situation when belief should out-muscle direct experience.

Example: Mandy had an abusive father, a drug-addicted brother and no other positive male role models in childhood. She has only attracted negative relationships with men. In her direct experience, all men are bad. But intellectually, she understands that her own experience is based on a ridiculously small sample size and 'believes' that there is such a thing as a good man. Which is closer to truth, the direct experience or the belief?

[James123]

@Frenk belief is just a thought of humans. Direct experience is YOU! Truth never comes from belief system. 

[Adamq8]

@James123 +1 ?

[Shin]

2 hours ago, No Self said:

Belief is the most powerful motivator, especially when paired with deep unconsciousness. When people have to choose between their children and their religion/beliefs, they typically choose the latter without hesitation. Direct experience is easily dismissed, unlike the mind.

As a segue, there is a situation when belief should out-muscle direct experience.

Example: Mandy had an abusive father, a drug-addicted brother and no other positive male role models in childhood. She has only attracted negative relationships with men. In her direct experience, all men are bad. But intellectually, she understands that her own experience is based on a ridiculously small sample size and 'believes' that there is such a thing as a good man. Which is closer to truth, the direct experience or the belief?

I hope you chose the name Mandy randomly ?

[RedLine]

beliefe = experiencie thought as content (as a reality) and not as form (a thought itself)

so yeah you are not gonna remove that structure permanently with a pschycodelics trip. Best case you substitute your previous belief for the belief of the trip.

Edited November 11, 2020 by RedLine

[No Self]

2 hours ago, Shin said:

I hope you chose the name Mandy randomly ?

Yes I did!

[from chaos into self]

I don’t know. All I have to guide me on this is belief. 

[Moksha]

Direct experience is the nothing left when beliefs are dissolved (hint: It starts with "C" and there is no "Me").

Edited November 11, 2020 by Moksha